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MadDog
Orderite
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2632
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
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 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:15 Post subject: Senate announcement/petition thread - petitions only |
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Post only petitions in this thread. Follow-up discussions can go to their own threads or PMs. Do not comment or reply to other people's petitions unless you have something to add.
Senate decisions will be posted here as well as what we're discussing and even how the discussion is faring. We'll try to keep you as up-to-date as possible.
Link: Constitution
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Dapper Dan Man
Orderite
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 920
Location: Displacing a segment of space-time
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:53 Post subject: |
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Well, my humble suggestion would be to resurrect The Order's fanfiction and roleplaying section with new material. We have decent writers and presumably spare time, so maybe some stories about the current membership or somesuch would be a way to rekindle interest in the group.
The old classes system, weapons boards, and so on dedicated to this were a good idea and it was a shame that the system was trashed.
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| Quote: |
H : "What do you think is the secret to happiness? Is it money, power or fame?"
C : "I'd choose money. If you have enough money, you can buy fame and power. That way you have it all and be really happy. Happiness is being famous for your financial ability to indulge in every kind of excess."
H :"I suppose thats *one* way to define it."
C : "The part I think I'd like best is crushing people who get in my way." |
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Brother None
El-ahrairah
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 36925
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 13:47 Post subject: |
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Announcement:
The Website Senator position has been abolished. There was no longer any purpose to this position as the Website is no longer nor could it really be (as the Order is hosted on another site) that active a part of the Order's existance.
It is to be replaced by the Legislative Senator position. The main job of the Legislative Senator will be legislation, which stretches from leading internal discussions about the constitution and rules, working actively when the constitution and rules need reforming and keeping an open line of communication about the rules with all Orderites. The second job of the Legislative Senator is the Website.
Mad Dog has been transported to the Legislative Senator position.
Bill passed by unanymous senator's vote. |
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Brother None
El-ahrairah
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 36925
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 13:48 Post subject: |
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Under the discussion:
The constitution is under heavy revision based partially on suggestions made during the elections, partially on flaws missed during the last overhaul and partially on new needs.
The first aim is to make the constitution clearer and easier to understand and use. The second aim is improving the rules where needed. |
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Lukus
Administrative SC oTO
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 11689
Location: McDuck Castle
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 13:57 Post subject: |
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Announcement:
Dove and Mohrg have been dismissed as Administrative Senate Consultants, and Wooz is to be hired in their stead as my primary and only SC. Note that this is a personal decision made by me, not the outcome of a senate vote.
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Jebus
Orderite
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 9011
Location: Brugge, Flanders, Belgislavia
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 15:38 Post subject: |
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OMG! It's teh Jebus' Suggestions (tm)
One:
| Constitution wrote: |
| We, the Seniors of The Order hereby ratify this Constitution to act as our governmental structure to organize ourselves, ensure that people in The Order know their job, and to create a very openly democratic organization, run by the people, for the people. |
You might as well drop the 'democratic', as:
| consitution wrote: |
| Appointments to vacant Senate seats are decided by unanimous agreement within the Senate. |
The Senators aren't chosen by the general assembly, and all votes are held by the senate. Therefore, The Order is far from democratic.
That said, I move we DO actually make The Order democratic; thus letting the general assembly vote for every senate position - except for the 'head honcho' one, which should remain to be chosen by the other senators. I propose we hold these elections annually or bi-annually.
Two:
| constitution wrote: |
Senate Board Director: He/she shall act as the Board Director. His/her job is to start and maintain a message board to allow for easily flowing communications among our members. He/she will appoint Board Cops to insure that the board is a mature and flame/spam free environment.
[...]
(board rules)
B. Trying to clutter up the board. This includes a large number of pointless posts, whether or not intentionally meant to be so.
C. Promoting spam (encouraging people to spam) or trying to start a flame war. |
We might as well drop the 'no spam' rule, as that's what 85% of tO is made out of.
Three:
| constitution wrote: |
Article 2: The General Assembly
The general assembly consists of the rest of the Order. Though they have no general voting power, they are free to submit suggestions to the Senate, and ask for a vote. |
Aside from the motion I already submitted to make Senate elections democratic, the voting of these motions should be made more public too.
When the Senate votes on matters that affect members of the General Assembly (or the General Assembly as a whole), those people have a right to know how the vote goes. Therefore, I move that the General Assembly should somehow be kept aware of how the Senate voting goes - perhaps by making 'Senate voting threads' locked threads on tO forum, complete with 'Senate only' Polls and all.
After all: even though the 'common man' may have no say in what his senate, parliament or whatever votes - he can at least see what they are voting, and try to influence the way they vote. It's only logical.
Four:
| Constitution wrote: |
Section 1- Board Rules
D. Insulting a person or intentionally offending him/her with a remark about his race, gender, beliefs, etc. Unintentional offending is not considered a flame unless it is repeated. |
This rule should either be clarified or decently enforced. While a good whack at the Poles now and then is only normal, some peole go to far in this. Kilus' rape thread jumps to mind - and not that alone. Clear limits should be drawn in this rule, and when they are drawn they should be decently enforced - without any nepotism.
Five:
| Constitution wrote: |
A person banned from the message board(s) can no longer be a member of the Order or join the Order. |
Where does that leave people like MethidParadox, for instance?
Six:
I move that Board Cops that have not shown their face for over half a year (*cough*gwydion*cough*) be relieved from their position and replaced. |
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Brother None
El-ahrairah
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 36925
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 15:53 Post subject: |
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| Jebus wrote: |
The Senators aren't chosen by the general assembly, and all votes are held by the senate. Therefore, The Order is far from democratic.
That said, I move we DO actually make The Order democratic; thus letting the general assembly vote for every senate position - except for the 'head honcho' one, which should remain to be chosen by the other senators. I propose we hold these elections annually or bi-annually. |
The Order has had a lot of problems with democracy and a lot of the oldies are weary of over-democratisation. This is an online community, a lose gathering of people with no vested interest in the place other than that it is fun. Democratisation seems to miss the mark
That said, a few cautious steps towards democratisation will be taken in the next constitutional reforms
| Jebus wrote: |
| We might as well drop the 'no spam' rule, as that's what 85% of tO is made out of. |
Spam is in the eye of the beholder. The rules allow light-hearted posts, they don't allow a string of " +1"s or "yeah, me too"s. In other words, it is a spam-free place, just not up to the level that some are spam-free.
You can't include stuff like that in the rules, people need to learn in practise.
| Jebus wrote: |
Aside from the motion I already submitted to make Senate elections democratic, the voting of these motions should be made more public too.
When the Senate votes on matters that affect members of the General Assembly (or the General Assembly as a whole), those people have a right to know how the vote goes. Therefore, I move that the General Assembly should somehow be kept aware of how the Senate voting goes - perhaps by making 'Senate voting threads' locked threads on tO forum, complete with 'Senate only' Polls and all.
After all: even though the 'common man' may have no say in what his senate, parliament or whatever votes - he can at least see what they are voting, and try to influence the way they vote. It's only logical. |
There is no need to make the actual voting process or polls open. Heck, we rarely vote by poll, it's easier to vote by actually saying yay or nay as it allows more discussion and less anonimity within the Senate.
That said, this thread is here to let you know how many people voted and how they voted whenever a decision is made, though not who voted what.
| Jebus wrote: |
| This rule should either be clarified or decently enforced. While a good whack at the Poles now and then is only normal, some peole go to far in this. Kilus' rape thread jumps to mind - and not that alone. Clear limits should be drawn in this rule, and when they are drawn they should be decently enforced - without any nepotism. |
That rule is not intended to be applied to Polak jokes or Kilus' rape thread, it was instated after some specific troubles, I think with Nuke. The point of the rule is that if you know specifically that this one statement will hurt a specific person, don't make it. Think of making seriously hurtful remarks about WG and Dove, for instance, that falls under that rule.
Whether or not it is still a necessary rule is the question, we could just shove it all under personal respect. Rules never define adequately how a board is run, but you can at least give a close semblage.
None of the Order's rules are applied without any nepotism. Trusted people, be they members or not, naturally get more leash.
| Jebus wrote: |
| Where does that leave people like MethidParadox, for instance? |
MethidParadox is no longer banned and as such eligible for Order membership. That rule should be buffed up to be more specific, it should real "A person can not be a member of the Order or join the Order while in the state of being banned from the forum"
| Jebus wrote: |
| I move that Board Cops that have not shown their face for over half a year (*cough*gwydion*cough*) be relieved from their position and replaced. |
We will, we will. I see no eligible candidates, though. HAHA! |
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Jebus
Orderite
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 9011
Location: Brugge, Flanders, Belgislavia
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 16:32 Post subject: |
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*Sigh*
I would like to put up for a senate vote:
| The lord of sex-ah wrote: |
The Senators aren't chosen by the general assembly, and all votes are held by the senate. Therefore, The Order is far from democratic.
That said, I move we DO actually make The Order democratic; thus letting the general assembly vote for every senate position - except for the 'head honcho' one, which should remain to be chosen by the other senators. I propose we hold these elections annually or bi-annually. |
It would, for one, make the Senators' positions more validated. |
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Lukus
Administrative SC oTO
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 11689
Location: McDuck Castle
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 17:36 Post subject: |
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| Jebus wrote: |
| I move we DO actually make The Order democratic; thus letting the general assembly vote for every senate position - except for the 'head honcho' one, which should remain to be chosen by the other senators. I propose we hold these elections annually or bi-annually. |
See, keeping things formal in this thread wasn't so hard, was it? (I saw your original post which got deleted). That said:
Anyone can 'request' (or perhaps rather 'suggest') a bill. But, for it to actually be treated by the senate with a vote, it should obviously be backed by at least one senator. All senators naturally check this thread, and if none of them find that they would vote 'yes' in the matter, making a poll for it in the Senate forum would be utterly unneccesary, wouldn't you say? Regarding your proposal, we recently had a big Senate election, and no one got voted out of office. I believe that now is not the time to decide upon weather or not we should have an election one year from now, but rather take it as it comes. The election showed that, overall, the peoples faith in the current administration is quite high.
If there is distrust in any Senator or Senate Consultant, feel free to post that either in this thread, or if it's sensitive, PM a Senator/SC of your choice to bring it up anonymously in the Senate. Yes, it will be difficult for the Senate to know exactly what the people think about everyone involved in the administration at all times, but calling for democratic votes as soon as there is the slightest distrust in a member of the administration would, in my opinion, be too much of a bother. If the need is high enough, I believe it will be brought to attention and be dealt with accordingly.
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MadDog
Orderite
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2632
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 21:38 Post subject: |
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I'm reworking the constitution right now. I planned on making it so that (as discussed with the other Senators), when a Senator steps down, he can recommend a person to run for the position. The Primary SC can also run. Anyone can run as well. And whomever gets the most votes wins the seat.
The reason why we've never had that is because most people didn't really care too much about the goings on... they just showed up. Senators have always passed down their powers, and everyone accepted that.
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Murdoch
Mad Scientist of the Order
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 3076
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 22:59 Post subject: |
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Cool. I'm glad the suggestions of the plebiscite have not fallen on deaf ears (except for Ozrat, who isn't even a senator anyways).
Question: Will we get to vote or otherwise have a say in whether we change the constitution, or will it be changed and then we can vote/input on changing it?
And will nominations be opened to fill the role of Legislative Senator Consultant? Or actually, can someone from Mount Olypus post a current list of Senators and their positions, just so things are clear?
Good stuff, keep it up!
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How many times must this fool die?
-Morte
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MadDog
Orderite
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2632
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:34 Post subject: |
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Senate Consultants will only be picked by Senators. Kinda like President picks his Vice President. Anyway, I am about to post a topic... but I guess it works here.
Who wants to be my Senate Consultant? Send me a resume!
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Mohrg
Orderite
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 2256
Location: West Palm Beach
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 19:25 Post subject: |
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I do!
I have no idea what they do nor am I really all that qualified, but I'm sure I can screw something up! Or even better know what the hell they do and then screw something up more!
Thats a lot of "!" at least I am enthusiastic! Didn't some candidate drop out because of his retarded(insane, for all you Terry Shivo lovers*) amount of screaming?! ME ME!!
*Just let the poor woman go...
Mohrg 
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Lukus
Administrative SC oTO
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 11689
Location: McDuck Castle
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 21:04 Post subject: |
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Announcements: Changes in the Senate
Due to an apparant distrust in Malkavian among the general assembly, he has been disseated with a 66% majority in a senate vote and will be replaced with Kotario.
The position of Legislative Senator will, now that Mad Dog has resigned, be given to Ozrat as was stipulated in the same voting.
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Jebus
Orderite
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 9011
Location: Brugge, Flanders, Belgislavia
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 21:34 Post subject: |
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| Luke wrote: |
Due to an apparant distrust in Malkavian among the general assembly, he has been disseated with a 66% majority in a senate vote and will be replaced with Kotario. |
That better be one nothing but a sick April fool's joke. |
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Per
Vault Lizard
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 9716
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 21:36 Post subject: |
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It's a coup by Kilus! I bet he'll be conveniently unbanned, waiting just enough time that it could be completely "unrelated".
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   Game help can be found in my Fallout guides.
| elpintogrande wrote: |
| The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred. |
| Todo.txt wrote: |
| BUG: Fixed alcoholic lizards! |
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Mohrg
Orderite
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 2256
Location: West Palm Beach
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 21:38 Post subject: |
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I have been appointed to take over for Kharn.
Mohrg
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calculon000
Orderite
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 2043
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada, North America, Earth, Sol system, Alpha Quadrant, Milky Way, This Universe
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 21:50 Post subject: |
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| Fireblade wrote: |
Well, my humble suggestion would be to resurrect The Order's fanfiction and roleplaying section with new material. We have decent writers and presumably spare time, so maybe some stories about the current membership or somesuch would be a way to rekindle interest in the group.
The old classes system, weapons boards, and so on dedicated to this were a good idea and it was a shame that the system was trashed. |
I think that Azzy's "You are found!" thread fills this purpose nicely. 
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| MadDog wrote: |
| Its not a fallout related topic. Read it again, it says Fallout 3. so there. |
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Ozrat
NMA hippie
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 6861
Location: Some random commune.
Status: Offline
Strikes: 2
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 23:09 Post subject: |
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Now that I am the Legislative Senator, allow me to reinforce the announcement in this thread to cease all spam in here.
My first piece of legislature passed through is that all Senate members must always vote for me in a positive or neutral stance, never being negative in any way or consequence.
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"Gov't will not free you
Per is the bestest lizard
Chores will set you free"
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Dove
Orderite
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 3485
Location: Tucson, Az
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 23:37 Post subject: |
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STFU Ozrat.
The board senator is the one that does that.
You just do...
paperwork...
or something...
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