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ZeusComplex
Still Mildly Glowing
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 21:39 Post subject: |
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| Makagulfazel wrote: |
| Courier wrote: |
| Bioshock 1&2 |
And then Bioshock Infinite came along:
*boobie picture*
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I remember fan backlash at the absurdity of her bosom actually caused the artists to go back and redesign her. Tits are great and all, but it can cause some serious distractions to the tone of a game. Just look at Dragon Age 2.
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Autoduel76
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 22:10 Post subject: |
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A partially metal pleated dress is every bit as functionally silly as armored bikinis...just less revealing. |
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Makagulfazel
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 22:28 Post subject: |
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| ZeusComplex wrote: |
| I remember fan backlash at the absurdity of her bosom actually caused the artists to go back and redesign her. Tits are great and all, but it can cause some serious distractions to the tone of a game. Just look at Dragon Age 2. |
Heh, like Ilosar mentioned, it wasn't blatant "SEX!" advertisement, but they were pretty damn redonkulous. Someone's gotta have the big tits in the world, but big tits and super powers? I don't think God's that generous.
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Crni Vuk
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 0:02 Post subject: |
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yeah many games do it that way. Its not really great.
But that does ont mean that EVERY single setting (and I am not only talking about games here) are inherently "shit" only because they follow this pattern.
I will mention FAKK and Red Sonja again. Because for the 3th or 4th time. Those characters are supposed to be that way. If you don't like it. Fine. I respect that. If you think it is an insult to your intelligence. So be it. But don't call it "bad" art only because it is not your taste. It is a setting which has its fans. Why should the people suddenly change it to be something it never wanted to be in the first place ? Mature. Well its shit that 85% of the RPGs today follow this path. True. But that is a different problem. And changing settings which started with this over-sexualised themes will not change anything in the long run.
I guess the only real way of changing it is to educate future game developers and publishers. Get the right people on the top of the food chain. |
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Makagulfazel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 0:09 Post subject: |
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I'm leaving Heavy Metal and the likes alone. I agree - there should be a niche market.
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UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:33 Post subject: |
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| Autoduel76 wrote: |
| A partially metal pleated dress is every bit as functionally silly as armored bikinis...just less revealing. |
She appears to have greaves on beneath it, though it might just be her boots. Someone who has played the game can confirm or deny this.
I think the bigger problem than the portion of the market with bikini armor is the lack of varieties of body types and, particularly for female characters, unattractive characters.
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~Thomas Hardy
"Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows."
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Courier
Half-way Through My Half-life
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Sabirah
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:38 Post subject: |
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| Courier wrote: |
Edit: This is about as sexy as you got in the first two Bioshocks:
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
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So a choice between your average Staten island girl and a 12 year old?
Man, gaming is getting really weird
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| warsaw wrote: |
Oh oh oh, can I contribute to this conversation!?
| Someone wrote: |
| I have an opinion about a game. |
You're an idiot! |
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Courier
Half-way Through My Half-life
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 Post subject: |
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| Sabirah wrote: |
So a choice between your average Staten island girl and a 12 year old?
Man, gaming is getting really weird |
That was my point, the first two Bioshocks aren't sexy at all. If they were it wouldn't make sense. |
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Sabirah
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:25 Post subject: |
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| Courier wrote: |
| Sabirah wrote: |
So a choice between your average Staten island girl and a 12 year old?
Man, gaming is getting really weird |
That was my point, the first two Bioshocks aren't sexy at all. If they were it wouldn't make sense. |
What I said was a joke. Of course bioshock didn't try and use chep tactics like sex and violence to get people in. Bioshock was above that 
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| warsaw wrote: |
Oh oh oh, can I contribute to this conversation!?
| Someone wrote: |
| I have an opinion about a game. |
You're an idiot! |
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agiel7
Hideous Freak of Nature
Joined: 03 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:30 Post subject: |
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Studio Art major here:
Chainmail bikinis I don't really mind. I'd say most of the girl gamers I know who see that trope in effect in MMOs or what have you don't really give it a second thought, though granted they would make a crack about it. The issue runs deeper than our particular subculture of video games and comic books; sexuality of women being played up in art has always been endemic in western society, from the Birth of Venus and Titian's work in the Renaissance to Yves Klein's Blue Women piece in the 20th century.
It is what it is, but when there's total outrage breaking out from one guy on a forum, that reeks of faux chivalry or political correctness to me.
Now if we're going to talk about sexism in games like Mass Effect, I'd argue that the Asaris are a more insipid example, given that they're universally depicted as (does best impression of Franc from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia") "whoores." I mean, they essentially take the female ideal (strong, but will never match the strength of a masculine lead, promiscuous, and subservient) to an utter extreme. |
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UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:48 Post subject: |
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| Sabirah wrote: |
| What I said was a joke. Of course bioshock didn't try and use chep tactics like sex and violence to get people in. Bioshock was above that |
Yep, Bioshock was nice and violence free.
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"Pessimism is, in brief, playing the sure game. You cannot lose at it; you may gain. It is the only view of life in which you can never be disappointed. Having reckoned what to do in the worst possible circumstances, when better arise, as they may, life becomes child's play."
~Thomas Hardy
"Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows."
~David T. Wolf |
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Sabirah
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:52 Post subject: |
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| UncannyGarlic wrote: |
| Sabirah wrote: |
| What I said was a joke. Of course bioshock didn't try and use chep tactics like sex and violence to get people in. Bioshock was above that |
Yep, Bioshock was nice and violence free. |
lol, you know what I meant by that. I meant gratuitous violence. The violence is shown in the same way as it is in blood meridian, to show the absolute decay of society.
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| warsaw wrote: |
Oh oh oh, can I contribute to this conversation!?
| Someone wrote: |
| I have an opinion about a game. |
You're an idiot! |
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Courier
Half-way Through My Half-life
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:58 Post subject: |
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| agiel7 wrote: |
It is what it is, but when there's total outrage breaking out from one guy on a forum, that reeks of faux chivalry or political correctness to me.
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Forgive me for preferring realistic female characters in my games instead of caricatures. |
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Autoduel76
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Joined: 14 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 17:35 Post subject: |
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| Courier wrote: |
| agiel7 wrote: |
It is what it is, but when there's total outrage breaking out from one guy on a forum, that reeks of faux chivalry or political correctness to me.
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Forgive me for preferring realistic female characters in my games instead of caricatures. |
Meh. The men are mostly caricatures too. The women being such is kind of a silly thing to get worked up over, until such time that that kind of realism is intended to be depicted. |
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Makagulfazel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 17:38 Post subject: |
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Ilosar
Vault Senior Citizen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 18:18 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Now if we're going to talk about sexism in games like Mass Effect, I'd argue that the Asaris are a more insipid example, given that they're universally depicted as (does best impression of Franc from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia") "whoores." I mean, they essentially take the female ideal (strong, but will never match the strength of a masculine lead, promiscuous, and subservient) to an utter extreme. |
Uh... Did we play the same games? Asari are ceaselessly talked about as being the best soldiers in the galaxy, extremely experienced, skilled and disciplined. Sure, they lose to Shepard, but that's Shepard we're talking about, the supersoldier who can take on entire platoons by him/herself. Even Wrex outright says he would hesitate before facing them. The games have given us many examples of Asari that are just as tough as any male in the series (mostly in the second game). Think of Aria T'loak, Samara, Morinth, the Eclipse captains, and Tela Vasir for instance. Liara fits the description somewhat, but it's her character, and she's like that regardless of Shepard's gender. And
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
she ends up as the goddamn Shadow Broker, it's hard to get more powerful in this universe.
I am a bit annoyed at their whole ''space elf'' vibe, yeah. But there's nothing sexist about them.
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agiel7
Hideous Freak of Nature
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 21:10 Post subject: |
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| Ilosar wrote: |
| Liara fits the description somewhat, but it's her character, and she's like that regardless of Shepard's gender. |
But the unfortunate truth is that Shepard will, despite all the praise for the handling of the character as a female, remain a male character in marketing and in the popular conscious of gamers. It seems as if the devs are nudging players towards that default Shepard when you go into that character development screen (I'll admit this was something Bioware fixed a little bit with Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2).
And yeah, I was going to bring up that point you mentioned about the Asari commandos and Eclipse mercs being complete and utter mooks to Shepard.
If we're going to talk about a truly great depiction of a strong female character in a Bioware game, I'd give my vote to the female City Elf in Dragon Age. |
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Sabirah
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 21:18 Post subject: |
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All RPG gamers see the main Character as male because most Gamers are male. Doesn't make Anjali Shepperd less of a character because she has to share the same franchise as the robot they got to play the male version of Shepperd.
And the Asari are depicted as the most powerful race in the galaxy militarily and economically. Not a bunch of space hoes.
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| warsaw wrote: |
Oh oh oh, can I contribute to this conversation!?
| Someone wrote: |
| I have an opinion about a game. |
You're an idiot! |
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Ilosar
Vault Senior Citizen
Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 22:20 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But the unfortunate truth is that Shepard will, despite all the praise for the handling of the character as a female, remain a male character in marketing and in the popular conscious of gamers. It seems as if the devs are nudging players towards that default Shepard when you go into that character development screen (I'll admit this was something Bioware fixed a little bit with Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2). |
Hmm, in ME3's marketing FemShep has quite a place. Unlike the first two games, she even features on the box art. Maybe it was a result of fan outcry. But it's still the way it is. They can,t have her front and center; 20% of ME2 players played a female. So yes, mostly males, so marketing appeales more to males. It's just logic.
| Quote: |
| And yeah, I was going to bring up that point you mentioned about the Asari commandos and Eclipse mercs being complete and utter mooks to Shepard. |
Again, it's Shepard. Regardless of gender, s/he headbutts Krogans for sport and
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
punches out 10 foot tall giant aliens when bullets fail to work
. S/he really isin't the standard you judge enemies to in this universe.
| Quote: |
| If we're going to talk about a truly great depiction of a strong female character in a Bioware game, I'd give my vote to the female City Elf in Dragon Age. |
Yeah, together with Shani it just felt like the women do all the dirty work in the Alienage. Dragon Age generally doesn't care much if a character is female, hell Ser Cauthrien is second in command to the most powerful man in Ferelden and is herself extremely tough, and nobody bats an eyelash. Only dwarven Paragon? Branka. Most powerful individual in the setting thus far? Flemeth. Leader of the Templars in Kirkwall? Meredith, who isin't the cliche sexy young female leader at that. This world is downright more egalitarian than our own.
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