A analytical perspective, and debate of planetary colonization.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Einhanderc7, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, we shouldn't forget that life it self, the science behind abiogenesis contains still many open questions. The origin of life, might require so many conditions to come together, that most planets might be habitable, but actually end up as sterile rocks floating in space, because there was never a chance to form organic compounds comlex enough to support live, could very well be that if humans once get to those stars and planets, that they will find thousands of oceans full of just the first stages of the process, but it never moved past that. Who knows? Maybe we are after all the unicorns of this universe ... or all the other races out there have killed them self, kinda like we do now to our self :/.
    Well however that be, I think a scientist once described abiogenesis, like the act of balancing razors on top of each other, just a slightly bit to much of one element, or not enough of the other, and it simply doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, the origin of life might be rare, but consider the sheer amount of stars with planets out there. It's extremely unlikely that ours is the only one that created life.
     
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  3. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Vault Dweller
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    I guess the big question then is making a space ship capable of caring everything they would need to lets say mars. Maybe they could use more than one space ship but still they would need alot of stuff plus the jounry is pretty long so tons and tons of food
     
  4. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Vault Dweller
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    I also meant the physiological sense as well because you have to let go of everything you ever knew and could ever had. That why I chose like the shed for example as well. It not necessarily having a 'shed' because you can have some sort of storage. But its the fact you will never be able to shed or ever see a shed again. I think it would be hard to condition the mind to get use to things like that to complete rewrite it and change everything it ever know. You can't say for sure what implication the lack of these things use would cause no having them.

    I mean Basically take everyday you ever remember and that ever day tralving to mar on mars is going to be completely different nearly unrelatedble is going have serious effects.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    They could eventually grow their own food. Or parts of it. A big problem with space travel, are simply the medical conditions, unless you somehow create artifical gravity but that comes with a lot of new problems - mainly, you need bigger ship which also rotate and so on.
    Traveling to Mars and back again, is possible even with todays technology all the issues could be solved trough engineering. It is really just the funding right now. However, space colonisation or long time travel is still something that will require a few more decades before it becomes viable. Might not even happen in our century, but who knows. I definetly believe that humans will at some point travel around the solar system, like to the planets and astroid fields we have, robots could do mining out there, some people might even live on ships or smaller colonies out there. It's possible at least, a lot of scientists say that at least and many physicists believe that we might have one day ships that are pretty close to the speed of light, like 0,75c or even 0,90, but that has to be seen. Traveling between the stars however? That's an entirely new problem. Relativistic effects, unless we're talking wormholes here but that's more science fiction for now, are a real problem and there is no way around it. Maybe, you could build a ship that will reach the next system and it's just a couple of light years from here, and it takes you 10 or 20 years to reach it, but in the meantime, a lot more time has passed. It would be a one way ticket.
     
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  6. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Vault Dweller
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    I think anything father than the moon is pretty much a one way ticket to be honest with you anyway
     
  7. welsh

    welsh This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 5, 2003
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Misanthropic God of Rations Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/how-far-is-a-light-year

    We just need a couple of Titan AE style generation ships and we got this thing in the fucking bag baby. That and it would help to have a base on the moon and mars to assist with such an endeavor. Once we militarize space in the next few decades the space race will pick back up big league. :)
     
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    It's extremly risky, but it's technically possible.
     
  10. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    We can always setup space stations and create a kind of chain of supply depots. Each station has its own transport/delivery vehicles so we can move goods like a baton race so to speak.
     
  11. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    We could go the 40K route and construct massive ships capable of sustaining a permanent population. With that Humans could possibly go farther than what we can now. But the problem with multi-generational ships is supplies. Every concept we can think of relies on in some form of another resources that are not sustainable.

    It is my perspective that research and development of sustainable and recycling technologies would be a very wise idea for space travel. While NASA has been approaching this subject with vim and vigor, the rest of humanity still scoffs at the idea.

    Fossil fuels, while effective and easily acquired, only exacerbate the issue. To be honest I still think we are a good long way off from actually doing much in space until we identify a solution to the various energy requirements that space demands.

    For those who have played Minecraft's island survival its about using the available resources to survive. In space the available resources are vacuum, radiation, and wildly fluctuating temperatures, (There is more but not readily available). I'm sure within those confines an exceptionally intelligent individual could invent something to harness them. Maybe a simple engine that uses two opposing temperatures to induce motion? But such a simple system would not be able to provide thrust for a vessel.

    We don't need perpetual motion, we need efficient use of energy.
     
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  12. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Not really much of a point to that, the repeated acceleration and breaking would be way too costly.
    Kim Stanley Robinson's "2312" had a nice concept for travel inside the solar system: Hollowed out, spinning asteroids were put on fixed orbits passing certain planets at ridiculous speeds, forming nigh-self-sufficient habitats for long distance travels. To get on them you need shuttles capable of some heavy Delta v, but they don't need supplies for too much travel time. Pretty nifty. Of course, Robinson then gets lost in making up too many fancy specialised habitats like those that are completely dark all the time, places that are modeled after certain biomes, habitats that are a constant orgy...
    Anyway, a line of supply stations is pointless, if you just want to move goods you can just boost them into transfer orbit using mass drivers and then slow them down using aerobraking or lithobraking.
     
  13. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    For the propulsion, some people have entertained using nuclear detonations. It had a fancy name but it escapes me atm.

    And thinking about it, yes, I agree we REALLY need to find a better way to recycle. The only issue I have with it is how often can you recycle when the stuff has been run through the ringer too much.
     
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Which of would be working very well with the so called 'space elevator', if that thing ever happens to be build, geting stuff into space with a cable and some kind of elevator would cost only a fraction of current rocket technology. And I think that it is really an interesting concept!
     
  15. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    @Hassknecht

    But we are talking about the perils of prolonged space travel like the damaging effects of loss of gravity, on the human body. We also have to figure in the psychological effects of crews left in deep space for extend periods of time, without the ability to visit family or take other forms of R&R.

    Crews (both station and ship), would be much more open to shorter trips by evenly distributing the distance via multi ship docking, in space. Crews could also be rotated from station to station, IE, one crew takes a shitty 'outer station job', and then later rotates to a different station much closer to Earth, in order to return to the planet for R&R or family.

    @Crni Vuk

    With a space elevator, the initial station could work as the 'hub', as once a ship is complete in space, it requires just enough energy to establish the desired momentum and to move and stop the ship.

    This ship could act as a cost efficient way of spreading the rest of the hub supplies to the other stations. If necessary, a type of every other station ship setup, would allow for further and further extensions.

    With continuous stations, the initial cost would be high but it would pay for itself during subsequent missions. It currently would also be the most feasible way mankind could extend its reach to the stars in a realistic period of 3 or 4 generations. Also, some planets may have resources but it is simply not feasible to establish a terrestrial installation due to a wide variety of factors (IE no solid core or extreme environments that would eat away at things. A station in orbit could be the closest thing to a permanent settlement. This idea is already a sci-fi staple that is actually very practical, unlike 'inertia negation'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  16. Arnust

    Arnust Vault Senior Citizen

    Feb 2, 2016
    And which of the planets in the Solar System would be the options? Any within the relatively proper distance to the sun?

    That comparison sounds dumb at first glance but it's so true! If you were not to respawn, a lot of thought and planning must be put in those things. Not like you'll find a map in a deep sea cave leading to civilization, but yeah.
     
  17. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    Mars would be the most likely bet after the moon as others have said.

    It is said the trip would take 6 months when Mars is closest to us. However, it would take 18-20 months before Mars would be close enough to Earth for a return trip so the time adds up.

    But with a pit stop space station however?
     
  18. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'm of the mind it's very likely that either we're dealing with a situation that the Singularity eventually removes species from physical existence or sentience actually isn't something which evolution naturally fosters. Kind of two different sides of the idea.

    :)
     
  19. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    There are some serious ideas to build something on Venus. It might sound crazy at first, but actually Venus has a few really cool advantages over Mars. First, it has more or less the same size like earth, so gravity would be very similar. Second, Venus has an thicker atmosphere compared to mars - less radiation.
    The problem with Venus, you can't build anything on the surface. But, you could in theory use air ships to float around in regions that have much less preasure and general better temperature and all.