Any armorers/blacksmiths on here?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Beaushizzle, Sep 17, 2015.

  1. Beaushizzle

    Beaushizzle Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 3, 2015
    If so, I have questions about armor types, pros, cons, etc.
    And no, it's not shitty LARP stuff. I'm talking about 12 to 18 gauge steel here, combat-ready shit.
     
  2. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    What kind of combat are you thinking of? HEMA?
    Because that steel aint gonna stop no bullets. :)
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Vault Fossil

    Aug 21, 2004
    I can't tell if it can stop bullets or not, the "gauges" measure is obscure to me as each country uses it's own and some don't use it at all. But no, I don't think he means modern combat.

    That being said, properly treated high carbon steel can stop bullets. It all goes down to the quality, thickness and what you are trying to stop.
     
  4. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    It may not have anything to do with actual blacksmiths, but all I could think of when the idea of body armor came up (separate from LARPing) was this.

    I WANT a graphene body armor!!! Maybe not subdermal, but a slick suit that ALSO deflects bullets? Fuck yes!!!
     
  5. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, sorry, that's going to take a while :D Large scale graphene production currently means graphene flakes of the order of mm², if you want good quality CVD grown (and the quality is limited by the transfer method, and thus mostly by the hexagonal boron nitride flakes, which we can't really grow like graphene so far). And it needs to be good quality if you want those mystical mechanical properties, because defects will ruin everything.
    Rather than graphene I'd recommend a woven carbon nanotubes cloth. Much better for mass production (no need for pristine, large scale flakes, much higher tolerance for defects).

    /edit: God, that Film Theory video... No, it's not diamond's structure. It's single sheet of graphite (not "molecule"), and it's an sp² binding, not sp³ as in diamond. In fact, it's a completely different crystal structure than diamond (which is a cubic lattice, while graphene has a hexagonal lattice). Never listen to laymen when it comes to stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  6. BigBawss

    BigBawss Wizard of the Hood

    Aug 22, 2015
    Blacksmithing is mainly a dead profession in first world nations. Any career that has to do with shaping metals, such as iron, steel, copper, etc. are mostly done is massive industrialized factories. I don't even think anyone refers to it as blacksmithing these days, unless it's taken up as a hobby.
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Since I was curious about something I could as well ask it here.

    But how do you actually avoid the blunt trauma with such materials? It is a common myth/misconception to believe that bullet proof armor would make you kinda the walking tank like seen with power armors in Fallout. Even if a bullet isn't penetrating you, the force of the impact has to go somewhere. While armor can spread the force of the incoming projectile somewhat, it will still have to deal with some of the force. I know a similar effect mostly from armored vehicles like tanks, several nations even created so called HESH shells, High Explosive Squash Head:

    HESH rounds are thin metal shells filled with plastic explosive and a delayed-action base fuze. The plastic explosive is "squashed" against the surface of the target on impact and spreads out to form a disc or "pat" of explosive. The base fuze detonates the explosive milliseconds later, creating a shock wave that, owing to its large surface area and direct contact with the target, is transmitted through the material. In the case of the metal armour of a tank, the compression shock wave is conducted through the armour to the point where it reaches the metal/air interface (the hollow crew compartment), where some of the energy is reflected as a tension wave. At the point where the compression and tension waves intersect, a high-stress zone is created in the metal, causing pieces of steel to be projected off the interior wall at high velocity. This fragmentation by blast wave is known as spalling, with the fragments themselves known as spall. The spall travels through the interior of the vehicle at high velocity, killing or injuring the crew, damaging equipment, and/or igniting ammunition and fuel. Unlike high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds, which are shaped charge ammunition, HESH shells are not specifically designed to perforate the armour of main battle tanks. HESH shells rely instead on the transmission of the shock wave through the solid steel armour.(...)

    So with saying that, I don't think that someone could just use this skin tight super-polymehr-what-ever-body armor and just walk trough machine gun fire and getting out of it like nothing ever happend without avoding some serious injuries.
     
  8. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    There's still a bunch of skilled blacksmithes here in Slovakia, thanks to all pagan gods for that! They're making top-notch quality weapons, knives and swords mostly, selling it worldwide. They're quite expensive too.

    This is one of our most skilled smithes. Sadly, he's been accused of murder and put in jail recently:
    http://www.lasky.sk/ponuka.html

    Celtic weapons replicas manufactured roughly 40 km from my living place:
    http://tv.sme.sk/v/26985/chcete-keltske-zbrane-chodte-do-perneku.html

    So on, so forth:
    http://www.ferrarius.sk/index.php/sk/noze

    And this, gentlemen, are hand-made replicas of medieval armors and weapons manufactured in our capital city Bratislava:
    http://antkov.sk/galeria/zbrane/
     
  9. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, it won't work. The energy of several grams of bullet travelling at supersonic speeds has to go somewhere, and while soft layers (if they don't rip) do distribute the energy over a larger area it will still feel like being hit with a hammer. And that's with hundreds of layers of kevlar, making it somewhat soft. Let's say a .223 caliber bullet weighs ~4 g and travels at 1000 m/s. That gives you 2000 J of energy that has to go somewhere.
    A bullet kills by focusing that energy on a small spot, the tip of the bullet. Hard armour absorbs some of that energy by using parts of that energy to deform and destruct the armour's material, and the kevlar layers distribute the rest of the energy.
    A sledgehammer weighs about 5 kg. Let's say it hits with a speed of ~20 m/s. That means the hammer hits you for 1000 J of kinetic energy.
    Now I'm not an expert in the field of getting hit with sledgehammers, but I imagine that it's quite painful and will result in massive blunt trauma.
    Unpadded skintight armour made of graphene? Sure, if you enjoy smashed bones and organs...
    Now what could work would be smart armour. The Nanosuit in Crysis is somewhat feasible, as carbon nanotubes can actually work as artificial muscles (apply voltage -> nanotube shortens). With the right type of nanotube mesh it might be possible that the usually soft cloth could suddenly harden, just like in Crysis in Maximum Armour mode. Of course that requires a lot of quick computing power and will render you basically immobile, but if the cloth could be made rigid only locally it might actually work.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    The best tool for break opening any plate mail like a friggin fish can is bradatica, old Slavic battle axe. It has stood the test of time, being manufactured since eleven century at least:
    http://kotoprznich.sweb.cz/galerie/bradatice.jpg
     
  11. Beaushizzle

    Beaushizzle Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 3, 2015
    Hey, dumbasses. I'm gonna go ahead and ask now. Jesus, this got out of hand quick. Brigantine armo: do the plates overlap? MUST they overlap? Can I use larger plates?
    For the other morons, no, it isn't for shootouts with the police. For HEMA. And SCA. 16 gauge body and 14 gauge helmet.
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Woha! Calm down man, you're not making your self any friends with that attitude. :V

    I don't understand why you're actually asking all of that here anyway when you could simply go over to google which would be not only easier but no clue, giving you more results?
     
  13. Beaushizzle

    Beaushizzle Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 3, 2015
    Sorry. Too long with the Order. Anyway, I've googled countless images, went to armory sites, visited the local museum and even rented a few books. Between them all, it overlaps except sometimes, and it's large plates unless it's small plates.
     
  14. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Vault Fossil

    Aug 21, 2004
    It has to overlap otherwise a blade can easily slip trough the gaps. Not a problem in HEMA, since no one is actually trying to kill you, but it's not real life combat effective or historically accurate unless it overlaps, as you may have gathered from the books.

    As for larger plates it may have been from harnesses, an evolution towards full plate, but there always is some overlapping at least with another separate piece of armor.

    Also, in a brigandine the pieces on the upper back tend to be larger.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  15. Beaushizzle

    Beaushizzle Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 3, 2015
    That's what I was thinking too. I'm almost leaning towards a code of plates because the plates are larger.
    Also do the splints in splinted mail overlap? I want to use that for arms and legs.
     
  16. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Vault Fossil

    Aug 21, 2004
    Can't help you much there, but if I'm not mistaken exterior splints overlap with interior splints you can see the rivets of the interior splints between the outer ones, this seems to vary from version to version tho. Again, I'm no expert, know this mostly from history and such rather than making it.
     
  17. BigBawss

    BigBawss Wizard of the Hood

    Aug 22, 2015
    You've only been here since August......

    Unless you're like me and you've had multiple different accounts over the years since like 07 or 08.
     
  18. Beaushizzle

    Beaushizzle Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 3, 2015
    Yup. Looks like I'm "having problems adjusting."
     
  19. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric Putting Food on your Family Since 1650 Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Fuck you all you goddamn hippies.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  20. BigBawss

    BigBawss Wizard of the Hood

    Aug 22, 2015
    Imagine what battles were like when the weapons were actually sharp enough and swung with enough force to cut right through the armor....

    They'd all have been dead in minutes.

    EDIT:

    Lol @ 0:20 and 0:27. "I don't need a sword to beat your fuckin' ass".
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015