Can you really call yourself a Fallout fan if you love Fallout 4, honestly?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by HarkonFourth, May 30, 2018.

  1. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    I like Alien vs Predator 1 and Matrix Revolutions.

    But i'm not gonna pretend that they are good movies, the flaws and blemishes in them are too apparent and too hard to ignore.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  2. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Another one of these...

    Nothing stops you from saying that you like Fallout 3,4 or 76. You don't even have to state why- you just like it. Nobody can provide an argument why you can't like it.

    On the other hand- you'll hear plenty of arguments why they aren't good/ are terrible.

    If you want to have a discussion provide arguments beyond that bullcrap "it's good, because I like it". Every few months someone like you shows up with the exact same statement and discussion goes nowhere because they can't provide any arguments supporting their position.
    It's pointless- if you don't have anything new to say, why bother?
     
  3. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix 4 INT Legionary

    Jun 25, 2018
    <3
     
  4. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    @Atomic_Spawned You'll need to be able to go beyond the whole "It's good because I like it" and "subjectivity means you cannot definitively say anything about it" arguments. Those kinds of arguments falls flat here. (And I lean towards subjectivity even though I do believe that subjectivity is not applicable always as objective standards will be in play to judge a medium).

    Nothing wrong with liking Bethesda's iterations. But if you want to stir up discussion with those 'arguments' and 'points', be prepared to go nowhere in any discussion here.

    Especially since plenty of trolls on this site have used and do use that as their default M.O here. It gets boring fast for both sides.
     
  5. Atomic_Spawned

    Atomic_Spawned Radiation-soaked, needs a towel.

    May 7, 2019
    So, I'm not here to troll. I'm here to genuinely discuss why I enjoy the games. I'm not 'another one of these', because I enjoyed the Bethesda games. I'm not a Bethesda 'white knight', because I'm willing to acknowledge they do some shitty stuff, and they're not as great as some people seem to think. I'm just trying to get you to see that they're not objectively bad. No matter the industry standards, or the standards that have been established by this community, they are not the be all, end all standards for video games. I never said the games were of sterling quality, I just said I thought they were good. By saying I liked them, it doesn't inherently mean they're good. It means I think they're good. There's just so much hate and disgust for them here, and I get it if they didn't tickle your fancy. Not a big deal. But you have to understand, there is no real 'objective' when it comes to this kind of thing. The idea I'm gleaning from this discussion so far is when I say "I believe these games are good", I am objectively wrong, because they are objectively bad. However, when I say, well, the older ones had some flaws too, I am objectively wrong. That can't be right. Objectively, as R.Graves stated, means not influenced by personal feelings or opinions. The way I interpret it, an example would be a person who has never played a video game in their life. This person would have no pre-conceived notion of what makes a game good or bad, therefore no bias, making their opinion objective. However, if you have a certain standard or idea of what it should be, then it's subjective. Even for you and I. My standards may be lower or higher than another person's, and I could enjoy or dislike something even if they feel the opposite way. If you feel the plot was bad, characters were flat, etc., then that's what you think. I'm just trying to show you that, to certain extents, one person's good is another's bad. Were the Bethesda games perfect? No. But neither were the Interplay games. If I were to show somebody a screenshot or video from the older games, they could very well say that Interplay's animation style is amateur and garish. If I were to show people screenshots or videos of the newer ones, they could say Bethesda's is dated and not up to par with other games. It's a matter of perspective. I know the people on this site aren't receptive of a person who likes the Bethesda games, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak my opinion.
     
  6. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    They would be wrong. You have to compare the animation style and art of the game with the games at the time, not with the standards of today. It would make no sense to judge games made 20 years ago with the standards today.

    Fallout 3, 4 and 76 look objectively worse than the games of their time. They have worse textures, worse graphic fidelity, worse animations, they just look dated. Compare Witchter 3 and Fallout 4, it's like night and day. Arguing about which artstyle is better is subjective, arguing about which two of the games that have the same artstyle looks better is objective if one looks worse than the another. This is not an hard concept to grasp.

    Except they are. You are not gonna change anyone's minds here, we have discussed about these games for years and years and look at them from every design point of view. You are not the first to try to change our minds and most likely not the last.

    Because you don't give an examples as to WHY. You have to give ingame examples, so that arguments can have legs to stand on. You can't just claim something to be bad with no evidence. This is why people say you are objectively wrong when you say someone can call the first two games bad, because they can't. And if they try, they have to have arguments for that and not just say it's bad.

    Honestly, this whole "everything is subjective" is something that got thrown around because people didn't want to get their feelings hurt. Because some people got on their heads that criticizing something they like is an attack on them. Which couldn't be further from the truth. When i criticize a game, i only care to criticize the game, i don't give a shit about which people like it.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  7. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    They are. End of story. So stop trying. it's annoying.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  8. Atomic_Spawned

    Atomic_Spawned Radiation-soaked, needs a towel.

    May 7, 2019
    All right. I'll drop the discussion, but don't think this means I'm changing my stance. Truce?
     
  9. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    o5m20cv34aa21.jpg
     
  10. Atomic_Spawned

    Atomic_Spawned Radiation-soaked, needs a towel.

    May 7, 2019
  11. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    You misunderstood. You aren't one of these "trolls" or "white knights". You're another guy that starts the discussion about Bethesda Fallouts with "objectively good".

    If you enjoy them- great. If you want to have a genuine discussion- provide some arguments favouring your position, so others can provide counter- arguments and discuss your points.
    That's how discussions work, by throwing some empty phrases you aren't gonna achieve anything.
     
  12. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Pretty much follow what @Alphons is saying and you'll last here.
     
  13. Atomic_Spawned

    Atomic_Spawned Radiation-soaked, needs a towel.

    May 7, 2019
    Fair enough. I see what you mean. The next discussion I involve myself with (not this one, I don't want to fight anymore), I'll be sure to have some solid points to provide. Thanks for the tip.
     
  14. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    As someone who has never played Fallout 4 and honestly probably never will, all I can say is that, I can safely consider myself a Fallout fan, as a fan of Fallout, Fallout 2, Tactics and New Vegas. If you're a fan of Fallout 3 and 4 and 76, as well as the other games I listed, sure, you're a Fallout fan. We have different tastes but whatever. But if you don't at least like the original Fallout, then eh I dunno, I think the lack of knowledge about the original game would limit your ability to be a fan of Fallout "as a whole." One of the problems for the Fallout community is that there's a real split between the fans of the originals and what I guess can be termed "Bethesda Fallout Fans". If you prefer those games to the originals, you do you, but your understanding of what makes Fallout great is different to mine. It's like being a fan of Star Trek: Discovery but finding the Kirk/Spock Star Trek campy and stupid; your experience of Star Trek fandom will be very different to the typical Trekkie experience.

    This whole thread is based on bitterness and frustration. I get that. Bethesda has taken Fallout in a direction a lot of the fans of the originals (and even just of New Vegas) find reprehensible. But I don't think it's fair to say that just because you like one of Bethesda's games you're automatically not allowed in the Fallout club. There's more to Fallout than just the original's isometric turn based game mechanics after all. I'm sure there are some fans out there who hate all of the games (maybe because they don't like the violence and gore) but otherwise love the Fallout lore and story-lines.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  15. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    But the most definitive star trek era was the 90s with TNG, DS9, and VOY...
     
  16. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying there are potentially people out there who've watched Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix (I'm in the UK so it's not on that weird site Americans have to go on to watch it or whatever was going on with that) and are maybe put off by the '60s, or in this case, '90s versions because of the production value and story pacing. I guess a better example would be if your only exposure to Star Trek was the JJ Abrams films (which I had completely forgotten about until now typing this). So I'm not saying that those fans don't suck, but I am saying that they exist and enjoy a specific kind of Star Trek.
     
  17. das-brut'el-dood

    das-brut'el-dood First time out of the vault

    Feb 10, 2019
    I liked it when you didn't have to build to do quests, I'd prefer NPC's do it.