Fallout 2 mod Economy and Combat Rebalance mod

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by phobos2077, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Of course, but that's a DAMNED high chance!
     
  2. burn

    burn Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Apr 22, 2012
    Not really. It means on average, after stealing 10 items, you'll get caught.
     
  3. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    That only means you'll have to kill 10% of NPC's~~~
     
  4. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped
    Modder

    Apr 24, 2010
    Actually not so crazy. Real life 10mm caliber is basically .40 SW which is a step below .44 I think.
     
  5. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    There's no stats on the length of the cartridge, it could be a very very short one with less power.

    All we know is it is stronger than the 9mm mauser firing antique ammo, and is weaker than the .44 by a sizable amount.
     
  6. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    One in 20, actually.

    I believe it's a holdover from Fallout's pen-and-paper roots, where if you rolled a 1 on a 20-sided die, you were fucked no matter what.
     
  7. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    That does make sense actually...Good old pen and paper games NEVER gave you a 100% chance unless it was something ridiculous.
     
  8. burn

    burn Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Apr 22, 2012
    "1 in 20" and "after 10 on average" are the same. But you're correct about pnp rules.
     
  9. FreedomStalker

    FreedomStalker Still Mildly Glowing

    Apr 22, 2016
    You sound like a masochist. It's already hard to make money in Fallout 2.
     
  10. Lexx

    Lexx Lived Through the Heat Death
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    Really? As soon as you're strong enough to deal with robber, etc. encounters, you're pretty much set money wise. The weapons you can easily farm are enough to make it possible for you to buy anything. Raider encounters are even better... pick up a few combat shotguns and trade them for whatever you need.
     
  11. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    That's why there should be strict limits to what a player can carry, one or two heavier weapons, and a pistol or two - that's it. 20 combat shotguns is nonsense. It would change the economy instantly.
     
  12. Lexx

    Lexx Lived Through the Heat Death
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    I don't like this either. Besides, it's pretty possible to carry more than two weapons. As the game is mostly abstract anyway, you can also imagine the player having a big bag where all that stuff fits in.
    Better way would be to not have enemies drop everything all the time, or make selling items a lot less worth than buying.
     
  13. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    I'm also correct about 1 in 20 not being the same as "after 10 on average".
    One way to deal with this is to make those encounters so dangerous that, by the time you can handle them comfortably you already have much better equipment than money can buy (bozar, power armor, etc). This at least delays the money singularity point. Of course, the "raiders fighting slavers" encounters are basically infinite free money because you can just hang back and loot the corpses.

    Another good idea is to make certain weapons only available in shops, not found in any containers or on enemies. The Avenger Minigun I think is an example of this in the base game, I don't believe you can find that anywhere. Having more weapons like this (the Pancor Jackhammer and HK G11E are also good candidates) means you have something to spend all that cash on.

    And finally, reducing the prices of common but uninteresting weaponry also works wonders. You never buy the Combat Shotgun, HK CAWS or Sniper Rifle, but you find hundreds of them, and they are insanely overpriced.

    It also deserves mentioning that the game uses the highest Barter skill of any of your party members, and they are pretty damn good at it. You'll notice this in Klamath unless you tagged Barter, prices go down when you recruit Sulik. This is one instance where I wish the game was *less* realistic. Of course a tribal straight out of Arroyo would want Vic the TRADER or Cassidy the Hardass Bartender to do their finagling for them, but it robs your own Barter skill of its utility.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  14. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder

    Mar 10, 2007
    Well, it's possible to get Avenger Minigun from Enclave patrols, but you probably already have better weapons than it when you can kill them without much worry.
     
  15. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    You can get free pancor Jackhammers (Or is it CAWS?) from watching people fight each other.

    And free G11E's.
     
  16. Lexx

    Lexx Lived Through the Heat Death
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    Yep, vs encounters are probably the worst, as you only have to wait and loot. AI won't engage you either.. as long as you don't attack them, looting the dead among the fight is no problem.
     
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  17. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    I know, that's why I said candidates. It would be a simple task to change the few encounters where these weapons appear, so that you pretty much only find those weapons in shops (or in San Francisco, where the economy breaks down beyond repair anyhow).

    I've done it to the Pancor and Bozar in F2WR, and the FN FAL HPFA works like that already - you can buy them from NCR and onwards, but they're not really found anywhere else, save for a few difficult encounters. They cost in the 10000s, so they serve as regular moneysinks for me to swing by NCR whenever I want to outfit an NPC with a new toy, and unload my crappy guns. Vic gets the FN FAL, Cass gets the Pancor, Marcus gets the Bozar. They also need Combat Armor, which can only be found in limited amounts, and I really want them to have some before taking on Darion. So I buy that too.

    I don't think the economy in Fallout 2 needs any trickery like altered barter formulas, or reduced carry weight, or even making Barter affect sell prices. It just needs a hefty price reduction on a few key items, some redistribution of encounter equipment, and ideally also a reduction of the NPC's barter skills. 30 for Sulik/Lenny, 40 for Vic, 50 for Cassidy, should be a great plenty. All of this can be done without any scripting or changing any game mechanics, it's just a matter of using the existing ones wisely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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  18. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    IMO the best economy I have seen in a game is STALKER.

    Gun damaged? You can't sell it.

    You can't loot armour off people.

    Etc.
     
  19. Lexx

    Lexx Lived Through the Heat Death
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    Well tough luck, Fallout doesn't have an item damage system. The weapon either exists or does not.
     
  20. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    Dec 6, 2007
    I've only played Clear Sky, but what I did there was to farm AK's in the military base in the Cordon. The soldiers respawn when you reload, and their AI is so heavily bugged that they can't see you if you approach the base from the back. You can just walk in and gun them down. So I did that a few times, sold all their weaponry and got enough to fully upgrade my AK (the black one). Once I had that, I didn't pick up any weapon for the rest of the game, because that AK was better than everything.

    I guess they really really wanted to make that game a tribute to Fallout 2. Easily exploitable enemies? Check. Bugs that give you free shit? Check. Best weapon found during first half of the game (.44 Magnum)? Oh yeah baby.
     
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