Fallout 3 Is Better Than You Think - Many A True Nerd

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Big No, May 14, 2018.

  1. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Maybe I should've clarified, but I was saying that from a perspective of a new player. Personally, I've seen all of the memes regarding Deathclaws, back before I even know a franchise like Fallout existed, and how people are scared to death of the Deathclaws.

    However, once I've getting deeper into the system and begin to go into it, like crafting a Dart Gun as I mentioned before, I came to realize how much of a joke the Deathclaws in Fallout 3 is. Yes, they're terrifying for me as a new player, however I think even you can agree that we're discussing this within the context of having played the game multiple times. Like I said, I should've clarified it.

    Oh, and you also haven't addressed the fact that even people like Cobra Commander killed an adult Deathclaw with a shitty 10mm pistol.

    Right, and how do you play this game that you think they're literal brickwall? At least within the context of vanilla Fallout 3. Now, I'm gonna tell you from my personal experience. When playing these hiking simulators, I tend to play it sneakily, always crouched all the time and hide whenever I even so much as slightly being detected. Thanks to this playstyle of mine, I have no trouble exploring literally every nooks and cranny that there is to explore, performing sneak attacks which is OP in these games btw, and even utilize subterfuge to deactivate turrets through a terminal if there's any, or just use the perk to deactivate bots. Oh, not to mention the broken VATS system, means you can literally take on an entire group of enemies without a scratch, provided of course you do it right.

    Now, again, I'm just gonna repeat that this is not a matter of gitting gud, it's not that I'm a master of this particular gameplay mechanic, or that you're just shit at playing this game that after repeated playthroughs you think those enemies are difficult, it's just that the game's system IS shit. No matter if it's the shooting mechanics or sneaking mechanics, they're all shit because they're a product of a shitty engine and a product of the devs who never truly improved their design. Like I said, even Fallout: New Vegas felt off despite of the many improvement it brought to the table, now imagine Fallout 3's own shitty version of the engine.

    Also, in case you still haven't understand what we meant with enemies posing no challenge at all due to level scaling, it's because in vanilla Fallout 3, the DR system ensure that it's too easy to deal damage when you're low levels, since based on the wikia page, the DR of many level scaled enemies are flat while they don't have as much damage, but became so much of a chore later on due to the fact that they have significantly bloated amount of HP as you level up

    How does that counts as a fucking goalpost shift? The guy talked about how enemies in Fallout 1/2 vs. 3 having different feel from one another in the first place.

    Also, you haven't addressed how relevant it is to savescum to bypass encounters. No matter if it's Fallout 1/2 or 3, you can savescum to bypass encounters, so why bringing it up in the first place?

    So, basically you're arguing this based on a newcomer's playthrough?

    I thought we're discussing this within context of having played through the game multiple times.
     
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  2. MKSaibot

    MKSaibot It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 11, 2010
    Had I not played Fallout 2 way before Fallout was bought by Bethesda, and well before Fallout 3 was released I do wonder how much more or less I would have liked Fallout 3. I will say that had I not played Fallout 2, I can't say for sure that I would have liked New Vegas over 3 by a whole lot.

    But that is seriously about the the most positive thing I can say about 3. Its not bad, and I also think Fallout 4 is better then Fallout New Vegas, but no one can say I am not a "true" Fallout fan by saying that unless they had played Fallout 1 (a lot) back in the day. I have hundreds of hours into Fallout 2, I loved the shit out of that game. Conclusion though I like New Vegas over all more then 3, but Fallout 4 is better then both of them.

    Oh and I liked Fallout Tactics a lot, loved that game, and its better then NV, 3 and 4. I can almost say I liked Tactics better then Fallout 2, but over all Fallout 2 remains the best single-player rpg experience I have had in my gaming history.
     
  3. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
     
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  4. MKSaibot

    MKSaibot It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 11, 2010
    Probably the only person to ever post on nma that actually bought Fallout 2 when it was still on shelves at EB Games, played and loved it, but will tell you they think Fallout 4 is better then NV.
     
  5. Norzan

    Norzan Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 7, 2017
    Ah yes, a game with laughable rpg mechanics, terrible writing, dumbs down the series even more than 3 and shoves settlement building down your throat is somehow better than NV, one that actually brought back traits when 3 removed them, it has way better writing, character and story. Not to mention way more ways to roleplay and a lot more quests with choices and consequences.

    You're allowed to think Fallout 4 is better than NV, but really now? Coming from someone who loves Fallout 2, Fallout 4 should make you boil in anger for how much it butcher the series.
     
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  6. MKSaibot

    MKSaibot It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 11, 2010
    I agree with everything you said, but Fallout 4 is just more fun to play in terms of gameplay. I don't really think 3, NV or 4 are necessarily good Fallout games because I had played Fallout 2 early on. I do not like the engine Fallout 3 or NV uses. I was massively disappointed with Fallout 3. New Vegas is a better game then 3, but Fallout 4 is just more fun imo then both those games. NV is a better RPG in area's, but 4 just has better gameplay. Fallout ended with the first Fallout 3 gameplay trailer imo. Fallout NV was only enjoyable to me over 3 because of its relation to Fallout 2. I have very little hours in 3, more in NV, and twice as much hours in Fallout 4. Three times more hours probably in Fallout 2 then Fallout 4.

    I am saying none of Bethesda's Fallout games are great Fallout games, and Obsidian was given what they were given to work with. They did a good job, I liked NV, but 4 is a better Fallout game over all. I do not like the heavy emphasis on base building, and or the player character being voiced. I also cannot stand the legendary weapons in the game, its a joke imo. There is a list of things I do not like about Fallout 4, but I will spare the details.

    Thing is Fallout 2 is technically the last Fallout game released from my point of view. We are playing Bethesda Fallout games now, there different. New Vegas is still kind of a Bethesda game in ways to me. So Fallout 4 is better imo.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  7. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I did. I just don't like wasting my time reiterating clear points ad nauseum to people who can't be bothered to read.
     
  8. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    You can get Advanced Power Armor and probably the strongest energy weapon right at the start of Fo2. If you know where to go, any Fallout game is easy. People talked about exploration (not deliberately going places you know about, prepared with specific gear for it). Then someone said it's not hard enough in Fo3 bc you can just go anywhere. Several shifts later and now apparently we're talking about how easy it is to exploit working knowledge. If it's not abundantly clear yet, I think it's become a waste of time because people can't keep track of what the topic even was in the first place. Let alone the sub-topic that these replies are even about.
     
  9. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    From what I see to this reply of yours, you're saying that you have addressed the fact that Cobra Commander killed a Deathclaw with a 10mm Pistol. I don't see it, but I've already clarified my initial point.
    You're insinuating that you can't do that in Fallout 3! Want to get something immediately in that game, just go ahead! Not to mention the fact that
    1. The world map of Fallout 3 is scaled down so much, means it takes literally minutes to get from one end of the map to another,
    2. AND the fact that the world is literally designed so the players can literally go anywhere, anytime from the very start of the game, to the point where there's not much thinking in area placement (remember Republic of Dave's location which is literal seconds away from Old Olney? This is also a problem in Fallout 4 where settlements exists only mere seconds/minutes away from wandering Super Mutants/Raiders)
    3. AND finally, the fact that most of enemy's levels are scaled to you means there's really no dangerous enemies at the start
    Meanwhile, the design of Fallout 1, 2, and NV's maps are deliberately and carefully crafted to immediately let the players know, that "These areas are meant for high level characters!", and obviously the devs didn't do it while taking players savescumming to bruteforce their way to endgame areas in mind!

    I think the problem is that you're treating multiple person as a single hivemind that have the EXACT same thinking. Yes, we're all preaching to the choir, but, for instance, I'm talking personally from my experience of having played through the game multiple times, Norzan's points are based on the fact that most enemies in Fallout 3 are level-scaled, while Jabberwock's points are based on his experience with the 'feel'; of how in 1/2/NV there are huge chunks of the map that are meant solely for high-level characters, while 3's is a jumbled mess of incoherent design (again, Old Olney-Republic of Dave comes into mind. It has been a huge problem of Bethesda's Fallouts).

    And even then, you're guilty of this, too. Jabberwock's points was never related to players own innate tendency to savescum in the face of difficulty, so why bringing that up?

    Just because you have fun with Fallout 4, doesn't necessarily means it's 'better' than NV. It's like saying shooters are better than RPGs because you have fun with the former, which is exactly the situation here between 4 and NV.
     
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  10. MKSaibot

    MKSaibot It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 11, 2010
    Black Angel you don't know wtf your talking about (jokes). This is like at least the second time I have had regrets on a post because I didn't give it a lot of thought going in, and acted on impulse. I am saying a Fallout Far Cry with a alter ego BoS faction thrown in a blender with the Enclave, and buildable sentry bot companions (= a lot of fun to me) is a better Fallout game then New Vegas. No I got on here to actually admit my post is cringy, impulsive and regretful. Marks the second time I have said something I regretted on here Fallout related, awesome.

    No I definitely have been having fun with 4, I do have more hours in it, but I thoroughly did enjoy New Vegas. It has just been awhile since I had last played the game (impulse without much thought part). It also didn't have a lasting impact on me like Fallout 2, or even Tactics for that matter. I play evil characters when I am allowed to play them in any game, but I was not a fan of Caesars Legion. I was not a fan of the BoS in NV, even though they are far more like the BoS in Fallout 2. The midwestern BoS is my favorite BoS, as Tactics did have a impact on me. The Enclave Remnants felt more like a easter egg to me, along with some other features in NV. Over all I just did not like NV as much as a lot of Fallout fans did, but I still enjoyed it.

    Long post, sorry, but I did want to add. I was massively disappointed with the New Vegas strip itself. This is due in part to my love for New Reno and everything it had to offer in Fallout 2. I was also not a fan of Mr. House. I wanted New Vegas to be New Reno 2, and I expected it. So I got let down in area's with NV.
     
  11. Valdetiosi

    Valdetiosi Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 14, 2017


    So here we go. I have to give props for @Jogre once again so I came up with this, And as side note made me have English lesson with pronouncing stuff.
    TLDW; imagine Jogre's post, but with Fingolian slurring added in it.
     
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  12. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Please tell me where in Fallout 4 that it was much more faithful to what Fallout 1 and 2 truly is compared to New Vegas.

    In case there are none, I think the right word for you to say is that, "Fallout 4 is the better game to play for me than New Vegas."

    I didn't deny that you have fun with Fallout 4; I'm objecting the statement that Fallout 4 is the better game, let alone the better Fallout game, than New Vegas. It's arguable that Fallout 4 is much more 'playable' than New Vegas if you compare these games from a shooter/hiking simulator perspective; but comparing them as RPGs and then saying Fallout 4 is better than New Vegas is false.

    Yeah, but within the context of comparing Fallout 2 to New Vegas, and then comparing New Vegas to 4, where in Fallout 4 you saw things you liked from Fallout 2?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  13. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Vault Dweller

    Oct 26, 2016
    Fallout 4 better than 3 AND NV? Like, what kind of weighted comparison are you using to come to this conclusion saibot?
     
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  14. Supermarauder

    Supermarauder Supposed PAYDAY Gang Member

    May 23, 2016
    @Cobra Commander Amen Brother. Also @MKSaibot , what are you smoking right now?? Because I want some if you got any extra of it.
     
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  15. Daniel The NCR Veteran

    Daniel The NCR Veteran I'm NCR and Proud.

    Apr 9, 2018
    All I can say is: A P Y R
     
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  16. Daniel The NCR Veteran

    Daniel The NCR Veteran I'm NCR and Proud.

    Apr 9, 2018
    Because Fallout is all about mindless shooting and building settlements. Ugh.
     
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  17. Valdetiosi

    Valdetiosi Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 14, 2017
    It's about deep roleplaying, like racing right before vault entrance so you can change yourself to another guy and forget you were having marriage and all that stuff. Instead you are mercenary, but pretend to be father figure, because it's undercover alias you use as your mercenary title.

    See? Wasn't that immersive and very RP like? Nothing like this can't be obtained in New Vegas. You cannot even play as full down cannibal since the game forces you these dialogue options wirh certain people when you take the perk and I don't want to have choices given by game, I want to ignore them and make my own choices.
     
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  18. Daniel The NCR Veteran

    Daniel The NCR Veteran I'm NCR and Proud.

    Apr 9, 2018
    Hope you are sarcastic, mate. I can't tell the difference by now...
     
  19. aP // Elliott

    aP // Elliott Whats Phase 2 Again?

    Jun 5, 2018
    I wonder if this guy will make a "Fallout 4 is better than you think" video a couple years down the line.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  20. Norzan

    Norzan Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 7, 2017
    @MKSaibot

    Yeah, i'm also confused about you saying Fallout 4 is a better Fallout game than New Vegas. I mean, as a regular shooter maybe, but Fallout is a lot more than just shooting. I think it would be less confusing if you said Fallout 4 is better than NV gameplay wise (this is debatable to me) because in everything else, just no.



    And yeah, i wouldn't be surprised if some sort of movement would rise in a few years to suddenly defend Fallout 4, just like i'm seeing recently with Fallout 3.