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Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by DirtyOldShoe, Sep 29, 2016.
It's a bad game if you judge it as a Fallout game or serious RPG.
It's a fun, solid game if you judge it as an FPS with RPG elements.
I really like it despite its flaws but I came from Fallout New Vegas, Morrowind, and Skyrim. I've never played the original Fallout games:
Combat is a huge improvement over Fallout 3/NV
Sound design is excellent. They finally made decent gunfire sound effects and I especially like the sound of distant firefights.
Bethesda still knows how to build an interesting world
Power armor feels and sounds like power armor. It just felt like super-heavy armor in Fallout 3/NV.
The settlement system is surprisingly fun (but Preston Garvey can die in a fire)
The crafting system is decent (but shallow)
The music is great (radio and ambient)
It lacks depth, a variety of ways to complete quests, and suffers from a complete dumbing-down of core gameplay elemements ("streamlining")
Survival mode is just a pain in the ass due to bullet sponges, sleep-to-save, and every chem increasing thirst (more difficult =/= more immersive). Forcing me to drink a purified water every time I use a chem does not increase my immersion. It annoys me (thank god for mods).
The "Legendary" system is really stupid. Legendary Radstags and Radroaches? Really? Legendary items would have worked if they were hand-placed and genuinely unique-- like Daedric artifacts in Morrowind
Level-scaling makes everything seem samey and you're rarely surprised by a really great reward after an especially difficult fight
Bethesda sure does like to retcon classic Fallout lore. It's like they enjoy pissing off the old-school fans
Dialogue system sucks
There is a serious lack of weapon and armor variety. They replaced more weapons and armors w/ the crafting system.
Voiced protagonist precludes any sort of unique backstory or history for the PC which seriously hinders replayability
The main quest lacks the depth and variety of other games (i.e. New Vegas)
...but I believe all of these negative points have been repeated ad nauseam
I disagree there. Even IMHO, even if you judge it like that, it still counts as mediocre. Everything it does as an FPS/Crafting game, is still terrible considering what other games like that have achieved.
Shooting is relatively poor, and only given credit because it's better than 3/NV's shooting. Graphics are terrible, art direction is terrible, settlement building and crafting are done incredibly poorly, and any other game with those mechanics does it better, and the world is generally filled with the same-old generic dungeons with the same old generic mobs.
But muh Godd Howard paintings r so funny xD
i luv it when the games do the meems :cheeky fedora tip and smile:
Combat may have improved over those games, but there are games with better combat. Hell, combat really isn't as big of a deal for me in Fallout games. Yes, the combat has always been below average and that brings it down, but there are ways to enjoy the game without engaging in combat. I actually really like that some of it comes down to whether or not you pass a speech check.
It's part of the reason why I think Fallout 3 hasn't aged very well but New Vegas has, F3 relied way too heavily on sub-par combat, it thought it had decent combat when it was just as bad as it's always been. New Vegas on the other hand relied on the player using other skills to avoid combat. Is the combat better in F4? Yes. And this is a big thing in its favour. At the same time, one could say that the Doom guys helped Bethesda design a better combat system. No matter which way you look at it, Bethesda couldn't do combat themselves.
It's why Doom is a lot of fun, it uses its system in a much faster paced game which is something the combat was designed for. In F4, battles are slow and nonsensical. It doesn't help that robots can "mutate" and their health recharges. Legendary enemies in F4 was one of the things that made me really detest the said combat in F4. In Doom, it works to take down a bunch of guys at once with a shotgun. In F4, you find yourself in these constant firefights which just won't end.
Most games now have decent sound design, just look at New Vegas which its creaking water tanks, gunshots in the background and graveyard whispering. I suggest playing the game with no music to get a very minimalistic atmosphere.
System Shock 2 is another game I think works better as a no music playing game. (Don't get me wrong, the soundtrack kicks ass) but you can really get a sense of isolation, that someone is watching you while you take every step.
Also, on another note regarding sound, I found the music levels to be way too off. I had to put subtitles on because I had a hard time understanding what people were saying (what is this? Halo?)
I think Fallout 4 showcased Behesda's most boring World design. There wasn't anything interesting, and the settlements were barebones (had to milk the "amazing" settlement system somewhere). I honestly think the World is just shit. Bethesda tried too hard to make an atmosphere that wasn't there (lets add in skeletons without any context).
For as bad as F3's World was, there was at least interesting places. F4 is so barebones and brought back that it just feels like we shouldn't care. Why should I care about Boston? Bethesda had one massive job of making me care about an area. I at least cared for DC in F3, I felt there were interesting people in that game who at least felt somewhat real. Hell, Obsidian made me care more for a fucking Desert.
So that's part of the reason I think the World is just shit in Fallout 4. There are many other reasons, but I've gone into them in previous threads.
This is something I will agree on. Bethesda nailed PA in this game, it has weight to them and it can be damaged. One major problem is the coils you have to collect to keep it charged up, I don't think this fits in well with Fallout canon. But seeing as Fallout 4 was the game where any continuity was thrown out the window, it feels like one of the least damaging insults.
I will also say that for as stupid and lame the armour customisation is, I kind like it.
If Bethesda were going to stop giving a crap, I at least felt the attention to PA was done in the most right way it could before it just felt insulting.
I'll take what I can with the lore breaking shit.
I've already given out why I think the complete opposite in a previous thread, but I'll repeat it here for the sake of argument.
The major problem I have with how Settlements were handled was how much the game wanted to be like both Minecraft and Sims.
The problem, the surface isn't flat like in Minecraft, there's lumps and Hills in the way. To make a decent settlement is actually extremely hard. Also, walls don't click together very well. It doesn't "Just Work" like Todd says.
I also have a problem with just how many settlements there are you can have. It gets too tiresome to micromanage about 30 different settlements. What would have better would be to have about three or four, and you get to make trade deals with other settlements. There could be backstabbing and small wars going on.
If you ask me, that's what should have been in place besides these radiant quests. But instead we get "Do this for the 400th time).
The crafting system ranges from fucking terrible to the best thing in the game. Probably the best thing in the crafting system was oddly enough Automatron. I get that it's ripped off from a NV mod and that it's essentially $10 for a tool that should have been in game. Bethesda's business is a topic for another day, but as a system itself, it's pretty fun and neat to get a vast amount of new Companions.
However, I think in other areas, Bethesda relied too much on it which is annoying as I personally think crafting systems is Bethesda's strong point. Yet even then, Bethesda were once again beaten by themselves as Morrowind's crafting system is beyond anything Fallout 4 could do.
I wish Beth would go back to making crazy crafting systems, but I doubt we'll get that.
One of the problems with the radio music, is that it's either from F3 or too obvious.
"Yeah, lets put in a bunch of songs about nuclear destruction".
It feels very gamey. And it's also just put out a bunch of people to gawk and go "This song relates to the Sole Survivor, Bethesda are so clever".
I know you could say the same with "Ain't that a kick in the Head" but I'll argue that it's taken as more of a joke and it fits the whole Casino vibe weirdly well. Also other songs didn't try to relate anything in game to the soundtrack.
As for the Ambient soundtrack, so I think the composer is talented, some of his work in F3 is actually very good and he nailed it with NV. I just feel that he didn't get a sense of direction in F4. It's very... medieval and doesn't fit the rest of the series. Some of it is still good, but I don't get that Fallout vibe from it.
Fallout 4, the 'great next gen RPG shooter experience'.
-With shittier gunplay than Stalker.
-With shittier RPG mechanics than New Vegas.
-With shittier graphics and design than Crysis...1...
-With shoehorned crafting and townmaking, ripped straight from mods and shitty building games.
-With no canon weapons, as if to spite 1-2 and NV.
-With enemies directly stolen from Tactics 2 and Wasteland 2.
-With overpriced shitty DLC, with a raised season pass, just before they stopped making DLC for the game.
You literally can't make this shit up.
This statement leaves me as confused as a blind lesbian in a fish market.
I think he's reminding us that drugs are bad, mkay?
What Fallout game is this from?
Fallout. I just edited the last part (the original said "That's more like your mind").
The world is boring, empty, and nonsensical.
Neither of these things have any place in a proper fallout sequel. And the settlement system SWALLOWED the map. It left room for only two actual towns.
Interesting options, I guess I'll just not vote.
I admit I am sort of guilty of making some relative assessments. A lot of the Pros I listed weren't really that good-- but an improvement over Fallout 3. What I mean is that the combat "feels" better. The recoil, iron-sights, use of cover, and everything is an improvement over F3/FNV. However, it is ruined by bullet-sponges and the Legendary enemy system is idiotic. A human shouldn't take 2-3 direct hits from a missile launcher. This is only fixed by mods.
Just because good sound design is expected doesn't detract from the fact that the sound is still quite good. They still can't quite get the sound of real gunfire down, though. A lot of weapons still sound like somebody banging a trash-can but it is an overall improvement.
You got me here. When I say world-building I should have said world-design. The landscapes and buildings are interesting but they suffer from a lack of cohesion and logic. Why are there roves of super-mutants and raiders RIGHT OUTSIDE of Diamond City? It makes no sense. It should be the safest part of the map but it's overrun with every enemy you can think of.
One of the only things people seem to agree on. Still, the whole "fusion core" mechanic was stupid and power armor was just way too common. They really learned nothing from Obsidian.
You don't have to use the settlements. However, you do if you want to do the Minutemen quest line. The biggest problem with settlements is that they seem to have replaced real towns. There's a severe lack of big settlements with back-stories, interesting characters, and quests-- which ties back into the world-building issues you mentioned.
It's a good basis but I wish they would've just used more, classic Fallout weapons instead of having 50 variations of a pipe or hunting rifle.
I completely disagree on this one. Yes, the tracks are a bit obvious and shoe-horned but it doesn't detract from the experience for me. The CONELRAD radio mod did this exact thing and I enjoyed it then. I still like the radio stations. But yeah, the ambient music is good but it's not terribly Fallout-sounding.
Turns out though, you can programm it, throw it in a fancy package (debatable), and sell it !
Polish a turnd enough, and someone somewhere will buy it.
- The book of capitalism.
I think Fallout 4 is so bad, that it actually created a completely new type of capitalism, the turdalism.
Was it even polished? Engine can't even handle the content.
Nope, this form of capitalism has existed since...PS3 era easily, even before that with clickbait and movie games and stuff.
Ubisoft still does it, and they started AGES ago, and have made massive cash from it.
Well, they proved their incompetence by releasing a 'HQ' texture pack which fixed nothing about the plastic textures.
Could as well post it here:
I think that's a perfect example of common Fallout 4 mods...
Notice how none of them actually do anything to help the game?
Sorry I was gone. RL Ya' know. I should be back now, while the shit hits the fans.
I missed being here.
Crap on the floor can only have 'aesthetic' mods, sadly as it isn't a game one can play, there is no extension of life mods for a pile of shit made by psychopaths that make 1.5 million a year.