Fallout 4 vs Fallout 2

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by justsettheradio, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    Fallout 4's graphics aren't exactly good though. Have you seen what happens to characters when it rains? It's like dumping a bucket of water or oil on a plastic mannequin. Same goes for their clothes. It makes them look even worse than New Vegas and Fallout 3 at times.

    Plus if you couple these robot-looking plastic characters with their robotic, terrible animations and contrived/forced-dramatic voice acting and dialogue, it really makes the whole thing look downright weird.

    This is a game where playing it with the lowest graphics setting actually makes characters look better on some occasions.
     
  2. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    interesting, no one here seems not mention the huge outrage and riiot when fallout 2 released in the early days of nma. so i guess something has changed.
     
  3. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Everything changes, passing the test of time, you know the drill.
    The problem is that Fallout 2 remains the same
    The problem 2 is that's no thread beyond 2000 is accesible for some reason and even web archive is not helpful. Besides, NMA had some terrible people that changed IIRC.
     
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  4. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I guess with hindsight, much of the dislike towards Fallout 2 has fizzled out. I believe the term is "vindicated by history" and from what I have played from Fallout 2, I can see why.

    The story got goofier, the villains less ambiguous, the atmosphere is not as grim (Fallout 1 still gets to me at times) and the writing had more referential humor that dark comedy which would piss off fans of the older games but to counter that, Fallout 2 had improvements to the gameplay (like companions), more interesting characters, expanded role-playing freedom, a region that has undergone the natural progression of recovery in a post-apocalyptic world and plenty of quests that have unique solutions with endings that acknowledge the player's efforts.

    With that in mind, I can see how Fallout 2 was hated and later was vindicated. Can't see the same for Fallout 4 though unless Bethesda makes an even worse Fallout game than 4.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  5. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    When you see what Fallout 4 did to this franchise, the complaints about Fallout 2 are very small in comparison.
     
  6. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    And.... THAT'S THE GREATEST MISTAKE OF ALL NMA TIME. It is big deal. Fallout 3 is plagued with KEWL STUFF because Fallout 2 was plagued by KEWL STUFF for example, Bethesda just thought it's fine to have kewl stuff and it's part of series' charm. And that's only one example. Working fixing this mess of RP System? Nah, nobody will notice and appreciate as should but KEWL STUFF... Would it be KEWL if... Ugh, you know already.
     
  7. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I know what Failout 4 did. I finished the base game and everything. Somehow it was the equivalent of the big shootout at Adytum with the entire populace against the Regulators with none of the build-up or interesting quests. It was a slog for the most part (the only fun I had was I got to screw around with the game).

    I guess that's why New Vegas dialed the KEWL back. A form of atonement, I guess and to set a benchmark for a future Bethesda Fallout (that was conveniently ignored as evident by FO4).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  8. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    New Vegas was KEWL in the first place? It dealt great with referrences by allowing not to see it but being KEWL?
     
  9. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    a bunch mysoginist cosplayer army is a KEWL stuff :smug:
     
  10. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    It written well enough to not be just KEWL. And not everything's perfect.:hatersgonnahate:
    Before you start - NO, FO2 does not do that.
     
  11. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Well, the range-finder being in the hands of a child who mistook it for a toy (since it actually looked like one) could count. I will concede that the KEWL humor of New Vegas was optional (I usually play with Wild Wasteland so that I could role-play a good Karma Courier who has a family history of encountering crazy stuff that nobody would believe so I remember the references more whenever I think of New Vegas).

    Besides, what I meant by dialed the KEWL back was that New Vegas did its best to reverse the shift from 2 by making all that KEWL stuff optional for players and that my main point was that Fallout 4 simply ignored New Vegas to continue with their childish KEWL humor.

    2 did have some ridiculous (albeit non-canon) easter eggs along with plenty of referential humor but I could accept the shift since it gave the impression that the West Coast had made strides in recovering from nuclear annihilation and from the Master's Army to the point where they can afford to be more light-hearted (while being unaware of the new problems from the Enclave and the power struggle of Vault City, New Reno and the NCR).
     
  12. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Well, the KEWLness of KEWL is partly lies in being nonsensical and not really working inside the world of fiction.
    Great War wiped out not only most of the humans but also the culture and the way of life. People after 200 years will reasonably rise an eyebrow on silly designed things like range-finder but in it's time before - it was normal to design such things. And kids won't have any questions becuase let's face it - there aren't much things to do in a Freeside being a child. Makes sense.
    Range-finder didn't go off after you activate the HELIOS? It was on safety latch all the time. Not a handwave, you can talk about this subject with Veronica during her quest. What a coincedence? The world as we know it now pretty much full of them, we just don't have time to pay attention. And when things go off - we'll know from the news. It's not as big as FO4's WHAT A COINCEDENCE! moments. Dr. Fallout criticized me already with goin' deep attitude so let's stop this already, shall we?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  13. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    :nod: True. I only brought up that point as an example and like you've pointed out, it's a nitpick at best since the game actually explores the implications and all. Good thing the safety was on indeed though it is rather funny that the kid holding the range-finder could hold it one-handed despite its in-game weight being a full 15 lbs.

    EDIT: Fair enough. We should stop looking too deep into New Vegas and re-focus on Fallout 2 vs Failout 4.
     
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  14. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Yeah, we'll never know, engine limitations or a joke inside another one.
    My favorite discussion.
    One thing similarly will never have a chance to be improved - the godawful UI! OMG THE UI! The inventory in FO1/2 was a bit moronic being a verical line but Bethesda's cramming everything into Pip-Boy doesn't help either. Yeah, Pip-Boy had categories to navigate but it's still not very good system. And FO4 made it woooooooorse~!
     
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  15. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    FO4's holotape sorting in base FO4 was horrid. I remember excruciatingly long treks into the Miscellaneous Items tab just to find that one holotape to play for a quest (and boy did that take a long time). Somehow, they made that worse for Fallout 4 when in previous games, it was listed under the Data Screen of the Pip-Boy under Miscellaneous.
     
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  16. justsettheradio

    justsettheradio First time out of the vault

    Jan 22, 2016
    I really should've cleared this up earlier when the thread was still fresh. I wasn't comparing Fallout 2 and Fallout 4 to see which was the better game, that much should be obvious to anyone. I just wanted to examine the design philosphies between Black Isle and Bethesda when they were developing their first sequels to their respective Fallout games. An example being how Black Isle retired the Super Mutants as the main antagonistic force and even showed them trying to integrate with the rest of wasteland society in Fallout 2. While in Fallout 4, the Super Mutants show little to no change from their depiction from 3, along with an even weaker explanation for their continued existence.
     
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  17. 0phantom0

    0phantom0 First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    I know i'm a little bit late...
    Just look at ratings and you'll see how much they improved since their first fallout game..
     
  18. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I don't know if anyone already replied by saying the same things I am going to say now,, but there are 4 pages of posts and I don't have the time to read them all (specially with this slow and freezing browser).

    In Fallout 2 they grabbed what they had from the first game and mainly expanded it (doesn't means that doing that was a good or bad thing for everything though):
    • They expanded the world
    • They expanded the size of locations
    • They expanded the story
    • They went all out with expanding the wacky stuff
    • They expanded the weapons
    • They expanded the quantity of quests
    • They expanded game features (like the "push" button, that allows us to push a NPC in case they lock our character by blocking the way, they also made the "arrow system" which allows us to click an arrow and loot the next body under that one, etc)
    • They expanded the way skills are used (added more things where you can use your skills, like dialogues, world objects, quests, etc)
    • They expanded perks and traits
    • They expanded replayability (due to more options and number of quests and how many ways we can do quests differently)
    • Probably other things got expanded that I can't remember from the top of my head but you get what I mean (or I hope you do).

    In Fallout 4 they grabbed what they had and mainly diminished or "removed" things from it (again doesn't means that doing that was a good or bad thing for everything though):
    • They removed the previous setting and moved to a new shiny brand new one (keeping some references, characters, etc from the old one)
    • They removed skills
    • They removed "perk" checks (I am talking about Base FO4, not Far Harbour)
    • They diminished the dialogue options
    • They diminished the ways we can do quests
    • They diminished the replayability of the game (because in one go we can do most quests for several factions)
    • They removed game ending slides
    • They removed (or diminished depending on who you ask) the roleplay factor of the game
    • They diminish the amount of weapons
    • They removed the weapon and armor durability (except of Power Armor)
    • Probably other things got diminished or removed that I can't remember from the top of my head but you get what I mean (or I hope you do).
    What Fallout 4 added was voiced PC and a more indepth craft and settlement building.

    So I managed to remember 10 things for both games. Of course the games had other things that were changed, added and/or improved (gun fighting, graphics, etc). But for me the most obvious mentality in both game designs were for Fallout 2 expand and improve Fallout, and for fallout 4 remove and diminish Fallout 3 and instead make things more pretty and action-y.
     
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  19. 0phantom0

    0phantom0 First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    And most importantly you can be a pornstar in Fallout 2
     
  20. Cooldawg86

    Cooldawg86 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Dec 25, 2015
    They weren't looking for roleplaying more than "player freedom" in Fallout 4. Its like a Fallout Lego playset. Which is good for the ADD Minecraft gamers of 2016. Lore and story doesn't really matter, it was just there to make you chose whose flag is gonna hang.