Fallout Pnp, Crunchy mechanics

Discussion in 'Fallout PnP (Pen and Paper)' started by E, Oct 1, 2016.

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  1. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    PnP RPG system with its roots in fallout.
    (latest version is post 22 of this thread)
    All mechanics open for alteration, though I may argue some points.
    Influences - SPECIAL, Shadowrun, CP2020.

    Stats
    Human range 1-10, 1 is cripplingly bad, 2-3 is noticeably low, 4-6 is average, 7 represents a “career” level in a stat, 8-9 noticeably high, 10 exceptional

    Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility, Luck.

    Calculated stats
    Sequence (Ax2), Move ((E+A)/2), Base actions ((I+A)/2),

    Skills

    Skills are percentile, with a base of about 4xStat. Small guns for example may have a base of Agility + Intelligence + Perception + Perception.

    Rolls

    To succeed in a skill roll 2 ten sided dice (D10) use one as the 10's digit and the other as the 1's digit. (alternately use a random number generator) If the roll is less than your skill (plus or minus modifiers) you succeed. Critical Failure happens if you roll 100 or above (90 + Luck). Critical Success happens if you roll under (Luck)

    Specialization
    Skills can be specialized, to do this at game start subtract 10 from your skill and add 10 to the new speciality. So if you start with Speech at 32 and decide to specialize in “seduction” you change your base speech to 22 and add Seduction 42,

    After character creation Skill points spent on specialities are twice as effective 1 skill point increases a speciality by 2.

    Hopefully this will make it so we can use the 19 or so existing fallout skills as the base skills and have everything else as specializations from them.

    Contested Skills
    Contested skills, roll against modified skill and compare success margin.
    You are trying to sell a box of mystery cans to a shop keeper. You have a Barter of 34 and the shop keeper has Barter 56. The Overseer(GM) rules that it is a bit of a buyers market (-10%) on your roll. The Overseer decides the shop keeper is intimidated by the group (so the shop keeper gets a -20%) you roll 67 vs a target of 24 and the shop keeper rolls a 70 vs a target of 36.
    You fail by 43 and the shop keeper fails by 34. A difference of 7 in the shop keepers favour so you accept a lower price.

    Alternate contests. Sneaking for example can be against an opponents Perception stat. If so multiply the stat by 10 for determining a value then treat as a regular contested skill. While on the surface this may not look fair, modifiers have to be taken into account. (sneaking in daylight with no cover in front of someone is difficult)

    Combat

    Who goes first? Roll 1D10 and add it to your Sequence, (luck may be temporarily spent to up this number, announce before rolling)

    Roll Action points. Roll 1D10 and add it to Base actions, (again luck may be used, as above)

    Announce actions, (in a general sense) lowest sequence first.

    The person with highest sequence acts first, performs an action and reduces their action points by that number. “I draw my 10 mm” The person with the next highest sequence goes next “I move towards cover” until all participants with remaining action points have had a turn. A participant may choose to wait and use their action points later in the round.

    Once everyone has depleted their action points the combat round ends, Luck is refreshed and begin again.

    To do
    Injury
    Melee
    Shooting (probably similar to CP2020, every gun has a list of ranges, close range is +20 to skill, long range is -20 to skill)
    have other things for luck to do in combat, especially defensive.

    Notes
    • It costs 5 Action points to travel your move stat (in meters)
    Guns and shooting
    Gun stats
    Class/sub class - What skill do you use to fire the gun. "SG/P" Would be Small guns/Pistol
    Accuracy - How much of a bonus does the gun provide to the to hit roll. (this is to do with inherent accuracy not bonuses provided by sights etc)
    Size - How big is the gun, Tiny weapons are very easy to hide these represent derringers and the like, Small these are weapons that could conceivably fit in a pistol holster, medium this is larger smgs and carbines, large guns are full sized battle rifles like the ak-47, Huge weapons are machine guns and bazooka sized.
    Frequency - How easy is it to find spare parts, a replacement and ammunition. (E)asy, (S)imple, (T)ricky, (H)ard, (I)mpossible. Then note the ammunition, 10mm for example
    Shots - How many bullets does it hold
    AP/Mode - How many Action points used for a type of firing, e.g. 3/SS, 5/B would be 3 AP for a single shot, 5 AP for a burst.
    Range - What are the key ranges, Inside, Medium, Maximum. A pipe rifles ranges would be (2,50,100). The first number is how close does an opponent have to be to be too close to easily hit. The second number is the distance that the weapon has no range modifiers, the third number is the range when a miracle would be required for a hit.
    Condition - How well maintained the gun is (E)xcellent, (G)ood, (A)verage, (P)oor, (T)errible.
    $ - Value.
    So the 10mm from fallout 1 would be written up like this.
    Name, Class, Accuracy, Size, Frequency, Shots, AP/Mode, Range, Condition $
    10mm Pistol , SG/P, 0, Small, Simple 10mm, 12, 5/SS, (1,25,50), Good, 250

    Carry Weight
    Three levels so lightly armoured characters have a benefit, up to strength x 10 no restrictions. up to strength x 40 base actions stat penalized.


    Edit
    Range - What are the key ranges, Inside, Medium, Maximum. A pipe rifles ranges would be (2,50,100). The first number is how close does an opponent have to be to be too close to easily hit. The second number is the distance that the weapon has no range modifiers, the third number is the range when a miracle would be required for a hit. The inside range can be removed as the weapons size provides the same information, i.e. at what range is it too short to use this weapon.

    Weapons will also need a weight

    Moderate this thread out of existence if required. Or if possible correct the lowercase p in "Pnp" in the title.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
  2. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    Excuse the double post,
    The next question is how to handle the damage mechanics, there are 2 main ways of doing it,
    1) Random damage - Armour. For example a 10mm does 3d6 damage (or whatever) roll the dice then subtract the targets armor value then ably damage (possibly with multipliers for location).
    2) Resisted damage, a 10mm has a modifier, say -10, when hit the target makes a endurance check (possibly involving luck) to reduce the effect of the damage.
    3) the third option, some other mechanic?
     
  3. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I like this, keeps damage and armour nice and simple. Easy to remember as well.
     
  4. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    Okay then for now we will go with random damage. I'll throw out a few more questions just to get a handle on what the general consensus is regarding what "feel" everyone is looking for in the game.

    1) How lethal?
    - How many times does a PC (player character) need to get hit before they see the big end screen in the sky?
    - Is one good head shot enough to drop a human 90% of the time?
    - Can a bullet be dodged, (a luck/agility) mechanic to get out of the way, (probably a lower probability of success than the average check as it adds to the tension and rewards players who play smarter)
    -

    2) How Detailed?
    - Rules for everything or a few rules that can cover a lot of things but are a bit light on detail?

    3) Survivalist VS cinematic
    - How much focus do we put on the environment?
    - Starvation, dehydration, exposure, radiation and so forth?

    4) Thoughts on melee
    - Will melee be handled blow by blow or by a specialized contest of skills (or other abstract mechanic)

    5) How are hit points to be handled, having a vast number of hit points makes gunfights a bit of a slug fest while fixed hit points makes for highly lethal fights. This relates a bit to question 1 but is a side issue.
     
  5. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Actually I have another type of damage. Weapon does set amount of damage, armour and endurance takes away from that. This set damage can be changed by ammo types and so on.
     
  6. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    Ok, here is a quick mock up to check I have the the right idea

    Nameless the Ghoul gunslinger fires at Vault Dweller Vinny with his trusty .357 firing standard ammunition. He hits Vinny in the torso. A .357 does 12 damage and Vinny is wearing a leather jacket that reduces the damage by 3 leaving 9 for endurance to deal with.*

    Options
    1) Lets assume that an endurance check is required. Then a difficulty needs to be generated for the endurance check, two key factors as I see it, the ammunition (or weapon being used) and the skill of the hit. Say .357 has a "Wounding Value" of 20 and Nameless made his shot by a margin of 23(a fairly good hit) this gives Vinny a minus 43 (-43) modifier to his endurance check. Vinny has an endurance of 8 (stats are multiplied by 10 for checks). Vinny now has to roll under 37 to reduce the damage* Vinny rolls a 04. This is a success by a margin of 33. lets say this reduces the damage by 3 points (1 for every 10 points of success). But wait Vinny's luck stat is 7 this means that his endurance check was a critical success, so it has double effect and the damage is reduced by 6 leaving 3 points of damage**.

    2) Assuming no check. Endurance has to reduce damage,
    2.1) A straight numeric reduction would be about (1/2 Endurance) so 4 points of reduction in Vinny's case.
    2.2) A percentile reduction. Lets say (1/2 Endurance x 10) so 40% less damage. In Vinny's case this means 4.5 damage (rounding down) or 4


    *This is a good place for luck to be used, suggested mechanic "before rolling to reduce damage, you may temporarily spend luck (gone until next round) to a +10 to the modifier to the endurance check.

    **This assumes a standard human is out of a fight after about 20 hit points of damage.
     
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  7. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    This is how I see it...

    Damage: Each weapon has it's base damage which can be changed through different ammo types for ranged weapons or strength modifiers for close combat. Some weapons are instead affected by a dexterity modifier (knifes and rapiers). So for example, imagine a sword fight between a skilled fencer and a large brute. The brute strikes with his greatsword which causes 12 damage, adding his strength modifier of 4 causing a total of 16 damage. The fencer strikes, his rapier causing a measly 8 damage but adds his dexterity modifier which is 6, making the damage of his attack now up to 14. Something simple and easy to remember like that.

    Armour/Endurance: Imagine this as the AC, where you add your armour to your endurance modifier (and sometimes cover) and subtract that from the weapon damage. This means that once you get to a certain point small arms and light weapons will have almost no effect which can create unbalance but also really gives power armour the edge. Also, this is easy to remember, and can be written down as one value somewhere on the character sheet.

    Dodging: People can also do a dodge action in which they take a dexterity check to see if they ignore ALL damage (unless it's an area of effect weapon, in which case they take half damage). However if they succeed they are at a disadvantage on shooting attacks next turn.

    Honestly I'm rambling but I'm going to have to write it out.
     
  8. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    My criticism of this style system is that it looks like a slug fest, I do X damage after Strength and A/E then you do X damage and repeat. This means the focus will be on the to hit roll and the dodge roll. personally I feel there should be a bit more chance for tactical options and decisions. To me a memorable fight is one you think about and weigh up options and balance risk vs reward.

    edit
    Don't worry about rambling either, getting the ideas out there is key at this stage.
     
  9. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    OK throwing out an idea.
    Modify option 1) from post 6
    Add Endurance to Armour rating* and multiply the sum by 10. In Vinny's case this gives us a value of 110 ((8 Endurance + 3 from leather armour) x 10) now apply the -43 wound modifier. This leaves a target of 67 with each 10 successes reducing damage by 1. This is a cleaner mechanic, and (my preference) it gives a chance to use the luck stat tactically (remembering the proposed bonuses it can provide to initiative).

    *We may need a glossary, in this case Armour rating is a damage reduction values.
     
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    The aim of the system is to make combat fast and brutal, not to mention SOMEWHAT realistic. If they fail the hitroll and miss... they miss, but no gun or weapon 'rolls' for damage. A bullet doesn't magically have a weaker or stronger effect depending on a random chance. This puts an emphasis on strength, endurance, armour, weapons dexterity and cover, things I feel that are vitally important in combat, ranged and melee. Oh and accuracy. All of combat is based on whether you actually hit. And sadly, armour strangely does not affect accuracy (DnD, as much as I love your combat system, I'm looking at you).

    I understand that it may become a slug fest, but I intend that getting killed unprepared is both fast and easy, while also having the results and damage being easy to work out. Next to each weapon write down overall damage and if it hits, subtract the 'AC' of the target to work out the damage taken. Then decide for a dodge roll or not (it makes doing things harder the next turn, either you take it or try get a better revenge attack), which is by itself balancing risk and reward. Better armour makes dodging harder as well, to represent weight. In power armour you can't dodge but why would you when you can ignore almost all light guns?

    Yeah... too much maths and working out...

    In my system, Luck would only affect hitting and dodging. Because luck can't actually mitigate damage...
     
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  11. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    This may get a bit disjointed, I'm just throwing ideas around
    OK I get where your coming from. I was looking at providing the players with a few "abstract" switches to throw, speed vs defense vs concentration. Straight up in your face bang bang has its place to.

    Random hit locations?

    With the mechanics you are proposing, the "to hit" roll is important, so hit locations, shooting faster, shooting earlier and aiming for weak spots in armour all leap out as switches the players can control.

    Speed and initiative becomes very important, can I shoot him before he shoots me. Can I shoot him more than he can shoot me.
    High lethality reduces the slug fest factor.
    Does semi realistic mean a 10mm to the head is always fatal (or close to it)

    "hit the dirt" sounds like a good name for the dodge you describe
     
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  12. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah rolling to hit is everything (as it should be). I'm not sure about hit boxes (you can aim, but it can actually end up being random due to movement of the person and wind), but I might make some vague targets which could have various effects.

    Initiative is everything. Being tough has it's places, because it directly takes away from the damage taken but being fast allows you to dodge better (doing at all the time is... a bad idea) and get the first shot in which matters a lot as it's a high fatality system. That's what I aim for.
    Firstly, it's really tough to hit the head and dodge is still a thing (unless they're surprised, can't dodge if you're surprised) but yes... now how to make headshots dangerous but not overpowered...
     
  13. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    This is an incomplete thought but it might solve the head shot issue.
    What about replacing Numeric damage with Descriptive damage?
    Rather than a head shot doing (Gun dmg) x 2 damage (head) to the target you have something like this.

    Guns do "damage class"*, head shots increase the damage class by one or two, each damage class has a table associated with it. When a hit is made roll of the table. luck may come into play. (subtract from roll type thing)

    Now the head shot example from before.
    A 10mm does "moderate" damage, this is upgraded to "major" damage because of the head shot. (it might get upgraded by 1 level for a critical as well. Also "Aiming for vitals" or something like it could up the damage class by a level (but reduce the chance to hit or increase the time taken as a trade off))

    Major damage table (very very draft)**
    1 just a Graze
    2-5 through and through that missed anything urgently vital, you are now bleeding (1 hit point lost)
    6-10 as above but you are bleeding, a lot (1 HP lost and 1 per round)
    11-20 a messy injury, (lose 5 hit points and 1 point of a stat until a "Doctor" roll is made (GM's call based on location charisma or int for a head shot etc.))
    21-30 lose 8 hit points and need medical help soon
    31-40 lose 10 hit points and make a endurance check each round to avoid unconsciousness.
    41-50 lose 12 hit points and if this doesn't result in death then make an endurance roll each round until stabilized to avoid death
    51-60 lose 14 hit points and if this doesn't result in death then make an endurance roll each round until stabilized to avoid death
    61-90 Dead
    91-100 Dead, but spectacularly so (think of all those fallout death graphics/descriptions)

    *light, minor, moderate, serious, major, critical, devastating

    ** again with a hypothetical 20 hit points to incapacitate a human
     
  14. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    Here is another idea,
    Regarding Dr Fallout's fixed damage.
    One mechanic could be 'increased margin of success" means more damage. Did the Buller get center mass or was it just a graze.

    This brings the defensive aspects into focus. That is to say how do we represent making yourself a hard target as mechanically important.

    Excuse the shortness of the reply, typing on a phone while hiding from rain.
     
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  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    My idea was to have the ability of having an aimed shot, which can target a certain body part at the expense of being harder to hit.
    For example:
    -Head
    -Arms
    -Legs
    -Weapon
    -Genitals?

    Each of these has a different effect, with arms and legs not changing the damage taken but leaving the target unable to do any activity where two hands are needed, reload times are doubled, etc. If the arms are hit again and damage is taken, then the target cannot do anything that requires arms. If a target has one leg hit his movement is slowed down, if both are hit he is immobilized.
    Headshots ignore armour and endurance and can only be dodged (the exception is for having a helmet which is half the armour value rounding up).
    Weapon shots don't do any damage, but destroy the weapon that was being holded.
    Genitals... not sure yet.
    All of this can be dodged.
     
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  16. FalloutIsMyDrug

    FalloutIsMyDrug Former Fo3 Lover(converted)

    Sep 29, 2016
    I am currently working on a simplified and otherwise modified version of what E has posted here(with permission). I feel like too many rules and calculations will bog down gameplay and make players bored. My efforts are aimed at creating a modified version of E's system that removes unnecessary number crunching and fine-print reading as well as balance tweaks. I have nothing to show yet, but you can check out the other potential PnP assets I have been working on here . The modified rule system will be added there later.
     
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Which one? He's listed several.
     
  18. FalloutIsMyDrug

    FalloutIsMyDrug Former Fo3 Lover(converted)

    Sep 29, 2016
    Just the content in the main post so far. I don't even know how far I am going with this...
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Oh... I see. It's quite a nice one but too complicated for me... I know, I love my RPG rulesets nice and simple to play with.
     
  20. E

    E It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 14, 2006
    Does the basic gun shot automatically hit the torso or a random location? One option is to make this the player's call. Either shooting at center mass or taking a shot at whatever presents itself.
    Shooting for weapons may be a bit complex. Does a .22LR damage an iron pipe kind of thing. Shooting hands may be another option, or maybe some generic shooting stuff that doesn't bleed rules.

    Side note
    - bullet damage idea, low variability, a 10mm does 7+1dx for example.
    - also from the comments so far keeping the core mechanics as simple as possible sounds like the preferred option. While I think some detailed rules may be called for I will try to make them modular whenever possible.
    - where possible I'll put the crunchy stuff in character creation. A couple more minutes at the start of the game but less when things are happening.
    - I'll write up something unified when I get a chance. Look out for edits in the first post.
     
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