Fallout Tactics Redux Version 1.2

Discussion in 'Fallout Tactics Modding' started by Endocore, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    I've updated my mod Fallout Tactics Redux to version 1.2. FOT Redux is a comprehensive revision and re-imagining of the original game's single player campaign. This new version is a major update, with a signficant amount of new material and gameplay as well as more original-game bugs than ever squashed. Thanks to feedback from players of previous versions of Fallout Tactics Redux, many improvements were also incorporated into the new approaches to the game explored by my mod.


    Special thanks is due to fellow forum contributor nadeauhugo, author of The Sum, who helped me by making a number of custom sprites for this new version. Thanks as well goes to RobertHouse and TwoEyedYum for the improved version of bos.exe which is now included with this mod. And though as far as I can discern he's not active in any forums these days, I'd also like to thank requiem_for_a_starfury; without his substantial contributions of tile and sprite collections to this community over the years, Fallout Tactics Redux would be a far less interesting mod. Many indirect contributors are also listed in the Credits section of my mod's documentation, and they all deserve our gratitude for helping to make a better game.


    The new version 1.2 of FOT Redux can be downloaded here (202 mb).


    More information about the mod is available here, and a new central clearing house for bug reports is available here.


    I decided to keep records this time around, and a text-only changelog for those interested in details can be found here. This information is also included in the mod's documentation, which is in the main download package.


    We've had many highly detailed discussions of almost all aspects of this mod in the past, for example:


    Here,
    And here,
    And here,


    but comments and bug reports are always welcome.


    Redux is a large download, and since the mod is in a mature stage at this point my initial concern is simply that I included all the necessary files in the update's package. If anyone notices problems in that regard, please let me know right away.


    Enjoy. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
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  2. Felipefpl

    Felipefpl Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2010
    Congratulations on your release and to all involved with the project, there are things i'd like to know:

    1 - why not post the changelog here like Killap/Sduibek do?

    2 - separate bug fixes and modifications putting them in their own section, right now everything is mixed, not pleasant to read if you wanna look just at bug fixes for example. ;)

    3 - Thank you for putting the files in a 7zip package, i'm tired of ppl putting things in zip packs that compress badly, zip must die. I hope you used the best settings to compress. :)

    4 - since you have moderator status you should clean the forum from ALL the old posts to avoid ressurection of dead threads plus keeping the forum clean for the new stuff. ;) (except those that contains updated/latest mods) ;)

    5 - this thread should be stickied. :)

    6 - you need more than 1 place to host the mod, try moddb.com and others ;) think about the cloud server deleting your stuff. ;)
     
  3. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    I'll definitely be playing this on my channel as soon as I finish Fallout 2. This looks awesome :D
    I hope it's alright with you? All due credit will be given, of course.
    Thank you for the hard work man, this is brilliant!!!
     
  4. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    Thanks for your interest, fellas. I don't think most people are too interested in reading zillion-word changelogs, though I know some are of course. I had mixed feelings keeping a log for this version in the first place, that was a lot of writing for such a specialized interest, but in the end I'm glad I did because it helped me sort out some the complexities as the project advanced. The changelog is available separately (see my post above) and included in the documentation of the mod, so folks who are interested in such can easily get it while at the same time those who just want to play the game don't have to wade through lengthy documents to get started. I'm not a moderator of this forum (my name is only yellow to indicate "Modder"), but even so those old discussions contain a lot of useful information and input from other forum members that should be preserved; I reviewed them all on several occassions while working on this new phase of the project. Thanks for the other suggestions, now that I have some time I'll be looking into alternative file-hosting services for backups and such.
     
  5. nadeauhugo

    nadeauhugo Author of FOT mod THE SUM Modder

    Mar 9, 2014
    Extraordinary! I will try it right away! Thanks for all your efforts making the original game a better playing experience. It really was in need of it.

    And, what? Can I have a yellow name too he!? Didn't know that!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  6. nadeauhugo

    nadeauhugo Author of FOT mod THE SUM Modder

    Mar 9, 2014
    Just tried the three first missions and I must say they are so much better (and better looking) than the originals! I like all that new items funny descriptions and your personal touch to the maps (grass and so on). Fantastic job! It is really more entertaining and realistic to play too. Melee weapons have more use, specially with sleeping people, guns are more deadly, you must be more careful fighting but you get the fight over more quickly and it is easier to have a good clean fight. I will play all the maps soon that's sure!
     
  7. Felipefpl

    Felipefpl Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2010
    How is it possible this didnt make the news in the front page? Specially given that tactics doesnt get the same love as Fallout 1/2.
     
  8. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    When you stare at all the maps as long as I have, one of the things that eventually jumps out at you is-- most of the maps are really boring in appearance. They have huge empty areas with no tile variety, it's sad since traditionally the pre-rendered tiles are considered one of the game's great strengths. Since there weren't as many bugs to fix this time, I was able to spend more time on improvements, including map appearance improvements. They're not yet close to the ultimate way I see them, but they're getting better.

    I just noticed the Mediafire link to the changelog seems to have been "Temporarily Unavailable" for 24 hours now (the mod download itself is working fine, though). Hard to say what's going on there, maybe all the talk of hookers and setting off nukes made some robot parser flag the content as dangerous or something. I'll look into an alternate method of making that info available.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  9. Felipefpl

    Felipefpl Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2010
    Endocore - put the file as an txt or 7z attachment in the 1st post. ;)
     
  10. nadeauhugo

    nadeauhugo Author of FOT mod THE SUM Modder

    Mar 9, 2014
    Your mod gave me the idea of maybe adding some of the original maps... (I mean not just the map itself like before, but the map with its quests and all, but with modified texts and triggers) They could be back to my mod at some remote areas with a totally different context. They really seems alive and could be challenging, specially for players in my mod - not specialized in battle at all. Would you be interested in letting me use some of your maps for that instead of the original maps? They have less bugs and are really better looking!
     
  11. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    Absolutely. Everyone should feel free to make whatever use of materials from my mod they like in their own mods.

    I updated that separate link to the changelog (other than downloading it as part of the mod) in the original post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  12. nadeauhugo

    nadeauhugo Author of FOT mod THE SUM Modder

    Mar 9, 2014
    Faaaaaannnnntastic! Thank you!
     
  13. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    You learn something new every day, I guess. I was playing around a little, and discovered the "Night Person" character trait does not work-- which I never knew before. Once the night-time bonus is applied for the first time, the bonus becomes permanent for any character with the trait. That'll have to be filed in the "unfixable bugs" category, unfortunately.

    The "Night Vision" perk works just fine, though, so if you want a night owl character take that instead.
     
  14. raics

    raics First time out of the vault

    Aug 17, 2014
    Great job as always, suppose I'll have to build the next version of my mod on this instead.

    A good thing I was being lazy and haven't worked on weapon progression yet or I'd have to go through all missions again :)
     
  15. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    Some things I'd be interested to hear about if anyone has insights are:

    1) Why does the flamethrower weapon get two attacks on each use? The second attack always does zero damage. I'm baffled about this problem.


    2) Does anyone have thoughts about why the suicide bomber lady in the Macomb mission never sets off her bomb?


    3) In Redux 1.0, when I was not keeping a changelog, I think I fixed the "endless combat in bunkers" bug by changing the team structure in the bunkers. At least, I haven't been able to reproduce this bug lately. Can anyone find a way to trigger the "endless combat in bunkers" bug and if so, what exactly did you do to trigger it? If this old problem really is fixed, I'd like to add a note about it to my documentation so the matter can be put to rest.

    I'm also interested in feedback on:


    a) Do players clearly understand what they're supposed to do now in the Quincy mission?


    b) Do players clearly understand what they're supposed to do now in the Kansas City mission?


    c) Do players clearly understand what they're supposed to do now in the Buena Vista mission?


    In other words, I significantly rewrote all the objectives for these missions in Redux 1.2. Are the changes clearly communicated so that as a player, you understand your characters' goals in these missions as well as how to accomplish those goals?
     
  16. BaddAzzYellaBro

    BaddAzzYellaBro First time out of the vault

    Mar 15, 2013
    Great......just completed first 3 missions in Redux and you drop a new version on me. Thanks.....no seriously Thank you! Keep up the good work. Glad to see the best Fallout getting some new modding done. Looking forward to your future expansion of Tactics.

    One request. I agree with General Barnaky about keeping the Brotherhood pure (human only). Is there a way to give players the option to only accept human recruits into the Brotherhood? Would be great to include this option into the mod.
     
  17. Vree

    Vree First time out of the vault

    Sep 29, 2015
    That's easy enough: let the Mother Deathclaw die in Mardin (or just shoot her, the BOS will think of that as an equally good solution) and do not protect the ghouls in Quincy. I'm not sure if there's a way to prevent mutants from joining, if not I guess a mod could tweak a mission objective to do that, too.

    I did not have a problem understanding them before and I did not have a problem now. Mostly I did not even notice that there was a difference (I know that seems like a cruel thing to say, :p but it's true.)

    I did notice the change to the Quincy Mayor's speech and objectives, and how it made it clearer that everything beyond saving the daughter (rescuing the hostages and Felix) was optional, and I guess that is good.
     
  18. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    Mar 14, 2010
    Vree gave some good tips on supporting a "ban mutants" approach to play, which otherwise isn't directly supported. Part of the trouble here is an intrusive authorial point of view by Microforte's writers-- apparently their intention was to portray Barnaky as slightly nuts, but years later I think many of us still playing the game are probably of the opinion that General Barnaky is a pretty cool guy who makes a lot of sense on many issues.

    One thing you could do about mutants is to take them into your squad, then take them out to a random encounter in the wasteland and "arrange an accidental friendly fire incident" for them. You could pretend you were working on top-secret orders from Barnaky to cleanse the Brotherhood or something like that. :cool: When you got back to base, you'd just report them as KIA, and since the player-character's squad is supposed to be some kind of hotshots in the organization no one would question you about it.
     
  19. Vree

    Vree First time out of the vault

    Sep 29, 2015
    Hi! I finished a playthrough with Redux 1.2 (I remembered FO:T the other day and wanted to replay it, saw the mod and decided to plug it in); Thank you for the effort, I had a ton of fun and your work is really appreciated. Now mixed: good and bad.

    - Slow rifles, fast pistols:
    SO MUCH YES. This was the one basically sold me on the mod and kept me entertained until the very end.
    Sniper rifles were in bad need of some kind of nerf, I think we here all agree with that, and I think +1 AP was exactly the right choice At the same previously unusable pistols now have their place and even allow for gunslinger type characters, which is awesome.
    My character constantly carried around about 3 different guns swapping them around based on the next upcoming situation for the best range, damage, and speed. I think I could've even run a pure pistol dueler type hero with high AG and average PE, or a pure sniper with high Pe and average AG, and I'd have been fine.
    [I'll try not to interrupt myself all the time, but I must ask:
    what decides from the engine's POV who shoots first, if 2 entities have already detected each other? Sometimes I could move out of cover and still fire first. Is it related to animation time and is AG (AP) or PE (Sequence) actually calculated?]
    I'd love to see this variety manifest in other weapon types as well, eg. "Throwing" offering a choice between long range (spears), high damage, and AoE (grenades), etc. ...but more on that later.

    And yes, I exploited the heck out of 1 AP pistols by the end, but that did not make long range weapons any less useful: I'd gladly take their slowness drawback because I needed the long distance to survive, and I only whipped out my 1 AP Plasma Pistol when a single enemy came up close. (And when I did not put it away in return for a different long range + mid range & damage combination, like the Plasma Rifle + Gauss Rifle.)
    - Upping the damage (say, by x1.5) I feel was in general a good idea. It makes you utilize your whole squad; it makes you take EN more seriously; it encourages turn based play for the boss fights; it makes firearms or deathclaws look as deadly as we imagine them; drugs and healing items have to get with a frequency that reflects their avaliability more closely. It also takes away from the importance of AG for every type of character (because it makes it more important what you can achieve in a single hit than what you can get by constant repeated blows), opening up room for more non maxed AG builds (say, martial artists that prefer LK, EN or ST).
    Overalll all sorts of stuff that helps the game.

    Status effects from enemy attacks seemed more common (I got Poisoned and Irradiated on Cheyenne Mountain almost constantly) and that was great too. It gave meaning to those Antidotes and Radaways I was carrying around, and there was just enough of it to make me slightly worried if I will run out before the Calculator's lair.

    - Some changes and additions, like the Reaver leader rescue mission & the switch to scripted paths, were truly perfectly executed.

    Now I must talk about the bad:
    - the recruit pool sucks - way more now than before:
    What we are supposed to be trying to enforce is a version that encourages team play over solo play (which was a constant trap in the original if you neglected CH and missed good recruits, because the difference in skill was JUST THAT GREAT. You're not gonna let a recruit fire a weapon if another recruit can fire it and have 2x the likelihood to hit something.)
    Redux actually made this even more important, because higher damage kills any unprepared recruit much faster, which is equivalent to a game over since you're not goona let anybody die.
    So it is more important than ever that every character can, if not reach, but at least get close to the level of your minmaxed superman main character. So what do we get.

    What you get is you tearing your hair out because on all of the first rank what you get is trash.
    Anything you could ask for: characters who Tagged the 3 worst skills, characters with self-defeating Traits,
    and it is as if the creator made it a rule that low rank should be = all attributes low, so you won't get to see a single 8 attribute or higher for a long time.
    Even if you run a 10 CH character and jump to Squire rank immediately, it is still offering you the same mutants, which kinda defeates focusing a character on that stat in the first place.

    The strange thing is that the original FO:T actually handled early recruits pretty well: sure, overall
    but they were gravitating towards certain builds, like a wannabe shooter did have 5+ ST, 8+ PE, and 6+ AG and Small Guns tagged. Even if they annoyed you with wasted perks, misspent skill points, or a single missing key attribute or tag skill, they were all overall immediately usable in battle or just one perk or two away (one "Tag!" here, a Mutate!:Gifted/Fast Shot or Gain there) from turning into something valuable.
    And they all offered some small benefit or quirk that made picking who you wanted to mold into a team member a challenge: a usable 2nd Tag skill (eg. Rebecca offering Lockpick as soon as your new player begins to realize that they'll need somebody with it on the long run), a rare high attribute, or simply better point distribution, which made them equally good options to consider for your group.

    It was only on higher ranks that the misspent traits, perks and skill points started shoving their effect, which meant that you were generally better off with a party you've raised yourself even if later recruits had better starting attributes, which made CH focus meaningless after the first few levels.

    So what we -I - expected were just recruits with better builds on higher levels, and maybe some extra options for the type of races that only had very few representatives before (deathclaw, dog, robot...) but which you've always longed to play as, as better built characters.

    What Redux seems to have done is not fixing the 2nd issue but even removing the 1st part of the pool.
    On my 3rd mission I literally had no usable person to fill my empty 6th slot.
    These guys aren't even worthy of carrying around for free exp.

    The part of the game that should've been about strategic team building, as well as cooperative fighting has been completely removed.

    The only halfway decent recruit in the entire game is the goddamn Resident Evil expy.
    What made you commit this travesty?

    - Junk, junk everywhere:
    So every player starts the game with a bunch of condoms and porn mags in their inventory...Ha, ha. Well THAT was a mood killer, nice of you to blow away the post apoc military recruit atmosphere I was trying to relive there.
    Dog tags. Yeah, nice touch, except they are on EVERY character. Doing NOTHING, just taking up space in the inventory 'cause what we want from this game is surely even MORE inventory management.
    A tribal trader offers dozens of goods for sale, except none of them does anything, so why are they there? To show people that such nice sprites exist?

    I'm not gonna wait until the "Wishlist" suggestion but will put this suggestion right here:
    these goodies could have been made meaningful.
    One is if they were ultra rare. So a completionist players could've collected them just for the sake of unlocking an imaginary achievement.
    The 2nd is if they were treasure items. I noticed that in some parts of the game objects that do nothing but which you can sell later have appeared.
    That seems nice since the carrying 100 rifles for sale part of the game was one nobody probably enjoyed (shooting up the town, then spending an equal amount of time distributing the loot among your recruits so that nobody's encumbered, so that you have money for more ammo and a new advanced rifle).
    One approach to fixing that -not neccessarily the best one- would have been to reuce the sell (not the buy) value of loot, and instead offer either money for missions OR - here's where they come into the picture- placing "treasures" on the maps you can acquire from defeated bosses or on key mission spots. So a neckackle from the Beastlord leader, a dogtag collected from the top paladin's corpse (heck, maybe BOS would even pay you for retrieving the dog tags from any dead BOS soldier), a pipe from a tribal side quest which you can all sell to the right person for tons of money could have worked. IF you are set on putting them into the game.

    But you know - MicroForté has been reasonably good about conservation of detail. If there is any element in the game that demands your time (even the damn Kerr the Merchant), it is likely to become important later. I'm not sure I'm buying into the "pointless extra stuff" philosophy. Wouldn't have stood out in FO 1-2, does so in FOT.

    - Most of the extra content is meh:
    Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but most of the new character descriptions, NPC conversations etc., I did not find them in line with the usual sarcastic FO tone. They seem to take themelves a bit too seriously.
    Many I found difficult to buy within the setting, like an overabundance of spies. I know these were added in an effort to give more bg information about the different factions, but with Ma Baker/the raider spy I already had my "fill" on that angle, and I seriously doubt if the BOS short-staffed as it is can afford to send initiates with insufficient training on missions of questionable direct benefit like this.

    One possible suggestion to help with this:
    Make all of the spies Inquisitors and use them as an introduction to extra material on this. Mentioned frequenty in the game text, they seem to be busy with just this kind of stuff (military intelligence), and could potentially be fleshed out more in added material.

    =============================
    I'd also like to deliver a wishlist.

    First of all (seeing the Redux fix patch thread) I wonder if it was possible to separate different aspects of the Redux patch. They'd still belong to one project, but a player could add just the ones they want: 1. bug fixes, 2. story expansions, 3. weaponry changes, etc.
    Maybe this is not possible because of file overlaps, but it'd help those would-be players who don't try the whole mod because of only one part of it (say, the difficulty or the changed weapon graphics).

    Now on to my list of requests/suggestions:
    - Variety for throwables, melee weapons...
    You did a great jon on guns and unarmed attacks so I wonder if these could be brought up to speed too.
    Melee weapons are easy, one just ups the damage with the STR requirement and tries to keep up with the Unarmed attack progression.
    (Have there been armor piercing, poison, etc. melee weapons? Sorry if I missed them.)

    I have a particular request for throwables: please increase the maximum range to 35 (for the best throwables).
    Max range for throwing in FO is calculated from STx3. Ergo, if the max range is 15 for grenades, then a 5 ST (or 3 ST and Heave Ho! perk) gives one all they'll ever need. This is NOT good. I WOULD like seeing heroic ST characters reach good ranges with spears, etc. and monstrous strenght launch objects to impressive distances. They'd still not threaten the range of sniper rifles or take away the importance of maxed ST from melee, if that's how people prefer it - but good ST for a thrower WOULD have proper significance. Also, it'd make room to create more AoE/damage/range/speed variety among throwable objects, like it was added for firearms.

    - Better map finds/random encounters:
    I was running a 10 LK character and STILL did not have a single "positive" encounter. In FO1 top LK pretty much guaranteed that you'd get bonus events.

    I'd much prefer it if events tied to location would appear as green circles on the map (this'd give back importance to the "Scout" perk), and another type of random event could happen anywhere with regularity regulated by LK.
    I don't know if this is prevented by the game engine or is possible.

    ---
    I'll probably make a thread for lore and bonus story suggestion stuff, and another for recruit suggestions...how about that? :p

    Keep up the good work, and thanks for the fun times!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  20. Vree

    Vree First time out of the vault

    Sep 29, 2015
    Starting my 2nd playthrough now, I want to thank you again - words can't express how much more it feels like a "real" game now :)

    Writing my thoughts as I go.
    - Your improvements to AI behavior has not gone unnoticed. :) (Enemies using cover smarter, attacking the hostages etc.)
    - Isn't it strange how the general warns you specifically not to let the Elder die, yet there is no concievable way that he could? Even aggroed enemies would priritize the player over him. Maybe a mod could play with that to put them in a spot of legitimate danger.
    - Stitch. Does it occur to you how strange it is that Stitch is essentially a dead load in every version of the game?

    Yes, he can heal, but there isn't really a use for that on this level: Stimpacks are plentiful and since their healed amount is fixed while a 1st Aid Kit/Dr Bag's is not, it's a waste to spend those supplies yet on this level.

    Since the game is supposed to encourage more group play now it stands out even more that you only get 3 charas for your 1st task and already one is unused.

    At least pre patch Stitch had Small Guns, though that wasn't much since Farsight already did it better (and likely your player too).

    But wouldn't it be fun if he was a useful character?

    I was thinking:
    Stitch
    Level 2
    Doctor, First Aid, Melee Weapons
    8 EN

    At level 2 that means he has =18+ST+2.5xEN = ca. 45-ish Hit Points, same as a max ST/EN starting character. And with that he can actually join in as a 2nd melee fighter (if your main is one) or act as one.
    There is a part on the level where you must climb a sniper tower where close quarter combat is unavoidable, making that a huge risk. It'd be nice if if you're running a sniper with lower EN, you could employ Stitch for that task.

    - different starting packages:
    As we all know there are really only about 4 core builds in the game:
    Small Guns/Energy Weapons guy
    Unarmed/Melee Weapons guy
    Big Guns/Throwing guy
    Support

    Small Guns: Plenty of help for this one. Can dual wield a rifle and a pistol, gets a 3 skill book boost in the beginning.
    Melee: this one did very well thanks to the 25-75 knife you get in your starting inventory.
    Unarmed: now this one I'm not so sure about. Workable, though requires high EN due to risk of instant death from a close shot, but much lower starting damage than the 1st two skills.
    My question here is, why do the Brass Knuckles have the old prepatch stats? I don't think bare hands should be better than them right away here.
    Throwing: See whta I said before. :3 I'd love to have spears rocks and grenades have varied max ranges between 15 and 35 or something like that.
    I'll also say that supplies are very low for this skill, 3 starting grenades aren't really enough to last the stage, if spears are reusable then those need to be improved so that they last the whole mission.

    (Big Guns/EnergyW, I'm cool with these not appearing yet naturally.)