Fallout with Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky on YouTube

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Briosafreak, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Briosafreak

    Briosafreak Lived Through the Heat Death

    Dec 18, 2003
    For real, from an Obsidian Twitch stream:

     
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  2. nkchan16

    nkchan16 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 27, 2016
    Finally. I've already watched the actual stream, been wanting to watch it again, it was pretty hilarious.
     
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  3. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    Bumping to remind myself to watch this.
     
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  4. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
  5. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Moved to news, I was planning on posting this but forgot :s
    Good thing I can move posts while reading NMA on the toilet. Wonders of technology these days.

    Will maybe update OP with more text after I watch it.
     
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  6. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    I have yet to watch the whole thing, but they don't seem too shy.
     
  7. babadook

    babadook Legislative Senator oTO Orderite

    Apr 2, 2005
    Please provide the gist of it if possible!
     
  8. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Holy crap. Will have to give this a watch.
     
  9. nkchan16

    nkchan16 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 27, 2016
    "Who made this game!?" :lol:

    The way they struggled with the game's mechanics kind of proves that the RPG they've been working on at Obsidian won't be anything like Fallout in terms of game play.
     
  10. Squadcar

    Squadcar Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 1, 2018
    I've been watching it in bits at work when I work at my desk. They have trouble remembering a lot things and it's funny. Like using a rope in Vault 15 has been a small issue so far lol. They also kinda poke fun at some of the older designs and oversights of the game.
    Agreed. Not surprised either though seeing as they're at Obsidian and it's been 20 years now. They also have to appeal to the modern RPG crowd who most of them love either AAA action RPG-lites or things like Divinity Original Sin 2. I was playing DOS 2 with a friend and we got about a 1/4th of the way through Act II and I don't know what all that fuss about it was about. It's not terrible but it's no godsend either from what I've played.
     
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  11. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    When they stepped out of the vault and the cinematic played from a first person perspective they said that that is what they wanted out of Fallout so I guess Bethesda's change to first person is true to what their original vision was.

    Ew.

    That's how I feel about pretty much any of the games that are given an excess of praise nowadays.
     
  12. nkchan16

    nkchan16 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 27, 2016
    They couldn't remember how to use the command mode (press & hold left MB after you switch to the command cursor) and no one reminded them, which was a very important mechanic in the game and because of that, they couldn't use the rope without moving it to the item slot, they also couldn't use multiple stimpaks in one go from within the inventory, and they also failed to "examine" the rocks in order to get the message that suggests to look elsewhere for the water chip.

    This video also proves that Fallout desperately needed the item/container highlighting feature as a quality of life improvement.
     
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  13. Squadcar

    Squadcar Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 1, 2018
    They didn't say that exactly. Tim said, "I thought this was cool. Because we used to talk about someday we're gonna make this in first person and this is what it'll look like. And one day, it was made in first person."
    So I don't know what they exactly meant by that but it does imply something. I don't know if they wanted spin offs in first person, a remake in first person, or if they're just playing nice to how Bethesda changed the franchise.

    And yeah I agree with the overhyped stuff. Everyone who ignored my recommendations for even modern cRPGs wanted Divinity Original Sin 2 for whatever reason. Can't formulate an opinion without mass critical praise I guess?
     
  14. nkchan16

    nkchan16 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 27, 2016
    Tim Cain's speech in this video sounded like he favored "streamlining", can't say I like that. Some may call this streamlining... Me, I call it dumbing down.

     
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  15. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Maybe that's why they've lost touch with certain great mechanics from Fallout.
    I mean, if they barely remember how to do anything in the game then... Well... When was the last time either of them revisited it?
    Wouldn't it be good to look back at previous work to see what worked and what didn't?
    The way they talk about it and play it it seems like they just dumped it out and then ignored it for the longest time.

    I miss my inspection cursor...

    [edit]

    And yeah I would say that when it comes to cRPG's, streamlining is almost inherently detrimental to the product. It starts with simplifying one thing that leads to reworking another thing to be easier to get into to cutting a feature or entire mechanic because reasons.

    The moment you start to make compromises to make something more appealing and easier to understand for a larger audience is the moment you're set down a path to neuter the game IMO.

    I don't want RPG's to be these cumbersome spreadsheets of mechanics either. Complexity for complexities sake is just annoying to get into.

    I'm all for a grab all function when you loot a body or being able to just hold down CTRL and click the items you want to loot as dragging each individual item can be quite annoying. But I'm against auto-looting all bodies in the vicinity which is something Wastland 2 did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  16. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice First time out of the vault

    Feb 9, 2018
    I made a short video about a couple of interesting answers to chat questions that Tim Cain had. Let me know what you think :)



    Apparently Tim Cain has plans for another Fallout game that he wrote after he left Interplay, and he also has a copy of the source code.
     
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  17. Squadcar

    Squadcar Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 1, 2018
    From that video, I see some of what you're saying. But simple systems can be better but it's really dependent. His view on player skill vs character skill is a good one in my opinion. Like in the modern Fallout games, if you aim at something and know you hit it, it feels bad to not hit it. That's just how our brains work and probably should work!

    If you're going to give players that much control over their aim, you have to let it be player skill. I know RPGs are more liking to character skills as they should be but that's something you have to sacrifice if you control the shooting. Morrowind feels weird when you first play it (at least in a modern sense) because when you HIT the enemy with your sword and you miss it feels really weird and wrong. I prefer the character skill for RPGs but in first person it doesn't feel as good as it should especially at the beginning of the game.

    And simple doesn't always mean easier. It just means it's not complex. But I do agree that he seems to favor some streamlining in some ways I'm not sure how I feel about it until I see it in practice. Could be better could be worse. I guess we'll have to see.

    Just got to the random vs feeling random part, the feeling random part has been in practice for awhile. I think they had to implement it in Destiny because people were never getting loot after too many runs of the same boss. If it feels random but rewarding, it's good.
     
  18. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Time you all realized none of these guys play games like we think. The writers make the interesting parts. The programmers design systems that they often don't return to and forget all about.
     
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  19. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    -Tim apparently has a Fallout game fully written just in case. Sounds overall that he hopes to make one, even though they repeatedly admit that it's highly unlikely.

    -Pipboy was originally meant to be a wrist-mounted device and it sounds like they were thinking about making a first person Fallout in the future.

    -I never knew about that rifle in Vault 15 bathroom. At least, I don't remember ever finding it there. Weird.

    -Too bad he played as the dumb character. Would have loved to hear them talk more about the NPC's and things they say.
     
  20. Paladin Hank

    Paladin Hank First time out of the vault

    May 6, 2018
    My real questions are:
    - Why was there a random dude sleeping on the couch behind Tim and Leo the whole time? Couldn't he find a more convenient spot to crash on? Also how overworked must Obsidian's staff be for a man to take a nap at 9am? (pause at 56:56 for evidence). Also what was he doing at the studio on a Sunday morning? Work? If so, why take a nap during working hours? Unless he came at the studio with the sole intent of sleeping on that specific couch behind Leonard and Tim, so random viewers such as myself could admire him slumber graciously? Such perplexing questions...
    - Also the steam account Tim's playing on has Fallout 1,3 4, 4vr and Shelter. What about Fallout 2 and New Vegas? You know, the best games in the franchise? Why would anyone not have them?

    Rad vid bra!

    PS: Tim sucks dick at his own game loool
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018