Games as a service (GaaS)

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by MutantScalper, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    If you have no internet connection a button on the login screen will let you start in offline mode.
     
  2. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Wait, I said that it would take less time than Steam logging you in and open, and you then talk about offline mode? You don't login in offline mode.

    So, let's get this straight: If you want to install a game on Steam, you have to log in and open Steam, then go to install (if you already own the game) and then wait for the game to be downloaded and installed. You can't do that offline. And if you keep your Steam offline all the time, then it will update once you turn it online to install a game, because Steam updates frequently.
    It's (most of the time) still faster to get a boxed game and install it, then put it on the bookshelf, than login to Steam, and install the game (specially with weak internet).
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Steam doesn't really update that frequently nowadays.
    And If I want a game I usually let it downloading on the morning while I am at work and get home to it already downloaded. And With all modern Games that have physical releases (AAA) you WILL have to download most of the game and install it because the disk doesn't actually have anything on it. So you can't play your physical game offline either so kind of a moot point.

    Also Steam opens on start up and it connects before I am even aware it's running. If it stars updating when I go offline, I either let it do it, or if I want to play right then I cancel the download and go offline. This is all done in 2 clicks and involves no shelfing space or organizing plastic.

    Also even if you have a physical game you will also have to download updates. All these issues you are rising applies to physical games too so I don't see the pertinence of bringing them up in this discussion really.
     
  4. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I think this digital vs. physical copy of games, in the end, comes down to a matter of taste. I have to admit having possession of the physical copies feels like you can show-off more and it does adds to the look of your room/house. But I have to agree with Walp regarding regional pricing that ends up with physical copies far more expensive based on where you live. It's definitely the case in my country, where unless you can get your hands on pirated copies, the original copies will bust your wallet in no time. Meanwhile, I can get the exact same game on Steam for much cheaper thanks to regional pricing, and can even pay for literal peanuts when there's anything on sale. GOG isn't regionally priced here, though, maybe they have a plan for that in the future?

    And the funny thing is, digitally the price of (at least) PS4 games in my country are basically twice as much of a Steam copy. For example, just few days ago I bought KC:D on PS4 while it's 55% off, so I got it for ~$20 down from the full price of ~$50. And then, I checked out Steam and.... it cost only ~$30 full price. I guess digital games for consoles are not something worth to consider unless the games are >50% discounted.

    Actually, you have to. Unless the games you want to play truly offline doesn't have DRM, once you try to launch them directly from their folders, they'll ask you to login. If you *really* don't have internet connection, or it's unstable at the moment, *then* Steam will offer to let you play offline mode.

    They don't want to, if it's multiplayer games. I'm sure you can family-share your library, have your single-player games being played by your families that you can't launch any of them, lest it will force-quit your family's gaming session, but at least you can go off-line mode and enjoy the games by yourselves without having to mess with your family's.

    However, and this is because I looked it up just few days ago, it seems they somewhat limit how much you can go offline mode, or something. Not sure if it's true, here it is: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/828935673287720576/
    Also, I think it's retarded to basically gate the offline mode behind having to connect to internet anyway. I remembered once I tried to go offline mode while having no internet connection, but it just won't launch.

    Wait, what? So, basically I've been playing the inferior experience of New Vegas the whole time???

    How do I disable Steam overlay while playing it? I also have to launch it from Mod Organizer since I'm playing it modded.
     
  5. Squadcar

    Squadcar Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jun 1, 2018
    Digital games aren't disappearing. I don't see the big deal. Actual physical games are. I'd rather have a market that offers both. You don't need to convince us about going digital, you likely won't just like we aren't going to convince you physical is better.

    My point is that all digital (with DRM mind you) is too prone to become anti-consumer in a way that I dislike. I'd rather be DRM-free and/or physical. I don't really have that option outside of GOG, older games, and a very rare amount of games now for PC because as you said, most of the time these physical games aren't physical games. That's not the games we're advocating for. We want our games on our discs. We don't want to collect physical games that are just shiny junk for a Steam code. Well, maybe some of us but we'd still prefer to not have the disc be nearly useless.

    We aren't saying you should go out and buy the latest AAA game for PC on disc because it's still just a digital copy in the end if it has a Steam code. We're saying we'd rather have physical copies of games still. Bring me back those 90s physical games. Remember when you could buy stuff like this?



    Sure you call it clutter, but I think it's awesome to have for a collection. I'd love to have a wall like LGR does. Give me all that "clutter."

    EDIT: Missed this, sorry.
    Yeah, that's what I was complaining about actually. How can I go "offline" if I have to be "online" to be "offline"?
     
  6. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    You guys need to take a look at the menus on steam because a lot of issues you rise are literally a checkbox in there. You can disable the Steam overlay, I have it disabled all the time.

    I get you. Don't worry, I am just exposing my point for why I prefer digital specially nowadays and replying to the counter points I see as partly misinformed.

    Just disable your connection before steam loads, pick the "start in off line mode" button the login manager and you are good to go. If you plain don't have a connection at that moment then it's one step less.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  7. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I don't leave my laptop on unattended for long periods of time. I turn it off if I have to spend an hour or more away. I don't want to "weather it" it while I'm not even using it. I don't have money to buy a new one if this breaks.

    I also stopped buying games except of GOG, because I can actually get the games and burn them on disks and keep them here, I can even print nice covers to put on the DVD covers and everything, looks quite nice.

    I don't buy new games from stores because most new games wouldn't run on my laptop, and I can't remember the last time I bought a AAA game, to be honest.

    I have my Steam to never start unless I click for it to start, damn bloatware, I'm not leaving it doing stuff on the background, and collecting info while I'm not using it.

    You can't stop Steam Updates... You can't run Steam online unless it updates. Maybe you have good internet, but many out there don't have good internet, which is an issue with GaaS that a few people already raised in this thread, it relies on Internet providers for consumer satisfaction.

    And what about the issues of Steam suspending my account? It has no pertinence to this discussion? Or how they demanded a photo of a hardcopy game key I had activated on steam to un-suspend my account? Or how without Internet I had to rely on my hard copy disk to play? Also most of the hard copy disks I have come with all the patches. I usually buy complete collection/GOTY/Ultimate hardcopy versions and for those games I own disks but they are not updated to the latest version, I have a couple disks I burned with the patches for them, these Patch Disks are there on the bookshelf next to my games. So no, I don't have to download patches for my hard copy games.

    You say that what I posted has no pertinence, because you can do all of those things, but most of what you posted doesn't even apply to me, so it has no pertinence either. Just because you do things one way, doesn't mean everyone does or can do it that way.
    And that is what people here keep telling you, for them, it's better, safer, faster and gives them a higher sense of happiness to possess hardcopies and/or DRM free games. You can't dismiss that by going "Uh, no. You're wrong, because I can do and like things differently" :lol:.
     
  8. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    So you got your account unsuspended, what's the big deal?

    Also, guys, I don't have a great connection, like I told you the highest my internet goes is 10m/s for downloads and I only got that plan last year.

    And you are telling me your hardcopies are just digital copies you burned into a disk. You know, if you just keep those on a diskdrive it has the exact same functionality without having to keep your disks around, that just sounds like a point in favor of digital because with your original games you wouldn't be able to burn things into them.

    I don't play games on a laptop, so I can just leave my PC on with no issue, and thanks to the magic of digital I can connect with ANydesk to it from my cellphone.

     
  9. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    You right click on the name of the game on your games list, choose properties and there should be a box ticked that says "enable the steam overlay while in-game". Just untick that.
     
  10. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    The big deal was that I lost access to my games for 4 days. That's the big deal.
    You said Steam will not suspend us, well they did to me, and you can ask anyone that was on NMA Discord when that happened, because I wouldn't shut up about it there.

    Well you seem to have a great connection, since you seem to login to Steam in less than a second, judging by what you said previously. It takes me several minutes just to login to my Steam, and that is when it's not updating.
    Mate, I have a bookshelf full or real harcopies of games. I only have a few patches and I think Neverwinter Nights 2 complete edition burned, because it's like 8GB and I also burned like 50 GB of modules for that when Neverwinter Vault was about to be shut down and I was afraid all of the good modules would disappear.
    I already told you, I have a laptop, it doesn't have a huge harddrive capacity, I also don't have money to spend on an external HDD, over the years I had like 4 different external HDD, they all died, so it's a waste of money to get one to backup stuff and then it dies and you lose your backups.
    Why would I want to burn things into original disks? I can burn things into writable disks instead... I don't understand what you mean by that at all.
    Good for you, too bad not everyone can be like you. I would have a gaming PC if I could and have internet that allows me to login on Steam in a second if I could and have all of those fancy gadgets to play on phones, which I don't even have (a cell phone) because I can't afford one and I can't afford to put credit every few months whether I used it or not.
    How about this, you give me half of the money you make every month and I will be able to experience your life style, maybe I would change my mind then. :wiggle:
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Again, what is the big deal? 4 days? That's actually a fairly short time.
    Maybe yours takes so much because you insist on never running it so the updates pile up.

    My point is that your point about being able to burn stuff into writable disks is actually an advantage of Digital. You didn't get those patches off your hardcopy, and if you saved those into a disk drive or an USB stick it would serve the same purpouse as burning them into a bunch of dvds, actually it would be more practical.

    If you have no money to spend on external capacity how can you have money to spend on Physical games?
    Why would I give you half my money? Maybe if you stop buying shelves, disks and hardcopies of games you could save for a phone or a mid level pc. I mean smart phones aren't even that expensive nowadays unless you are eyeing an expensive brand.
     
  12. Squadcar

    Squadcar Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jun 1, 2018
    I have spent a lot of money on Steam. If I punched in a code for a game on Steam and had my account suspended for 4 days, I'd be fucking furious. I paid money for all those games, I want to have access to them. Punching in a code (despite whatever issue) shouldn't suspend the rest of my account. Fuck that. Four days is more than a weekend, that's for sure. What if I wanted to play something else I just bought on Steam on my days off?
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  13. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Are you being this hardheaded on purpose? Your point was "Steam won't suspend your accounts!" I prove they did, you then change your goalposts to "it was only 4 days, what's the big deal". Just admit, you were wrong, Steam can and will suspend anyone's account if they want to.
    I never lost access to my hardcopy games even for a minute. You lose this one, there's no point in shifting goalposts.
    Again, are you being this hardheaded on purpose? Please read what I typed, I specifically said: "It takes me several minutes just to login to my Steam, and that is when it's not updating."
    Really Walp, if you're not even reading what I post, you shouldn't be replying to it.
    I did get patches of my hardcopies, didn't you read my previous post? I said: "Also most of the hard copy disks I have come with all the patches. I usually buy complete collection/GOTY/Ultimate hardcopy versions".
    I said I have a couple disks with patches, that is for like 3 or 4 games total and I also need to point out that many of those patches are fan patches like for the classic fallout games.
    Also you seem to not have read (once again) my post, where I said: "I also don't have money to spend on an external HDD, over the years I had like 4 different external HDD, they all died, so it's a waste of money to get one to backup stuff and then it dies and you lose your backups."
    So no, putting them on an external disk or a disk drive is not a reliable option.
    Simple, I can't.
    You also seem to have not read my post where I say this: "I don't buy new games from stores because most new games wouldn't run on my laptop, and I can't remember the last time I bought a AAA game, to be honest."
    All the hardcopies I have are from older games, from when I was fit and healthy, had a job and still lived in the other side of the world. Didn't you notice how I only mentioned old games when I named some of my hardcopy games: "I went to my bookcase and got Age of Empires 3 complete, C&C Generals Zero Hour, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and expansions" and "Neverwinter Nights 2".
    Again, start reading my posts. I don't buy games anymore because I can't afford them.

    And please, don't tell me how to manage my money, I already have to have a very detailed balance and how I need to spend my money so I won't get in debt and can put food on the table for most days, thank you very much. I would appreciate you don't come by and tell me I can save for stuff when I already have to skip breakfast everyday and skip other meals sometimes just to pay the bills, and other times, all I have to eat is a bag of nuts as a meal. I'm also lucky I'm paying a cheaper rent than I should and we even had to put one of my sister inlaw living here with us to pay rent too. Also since I'm on a roll, I only have this laptop because the great guys over at the TTW team saved a few hundred dollars and sent it to me for me to get a new laptop when my previous one broke and I couldn't afford anything that could even run FNV.
    EDIT: Damn it's 4:25am and i should be asleep ages ago... There goes my sleeping schedule... I have to go and sleep.
     
  14. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    My point was "they won't BAN your accounts for no reason" in response of you guys insisting you could lose all your game forever at any second. Your retort is one freak incident where you got suspended for 4 day and lost nothing. Again, what is the big deal?

    If you only have old games then what is the relevance to that with the digital and games as a service discussion? You can download those off GOG with no DRM too. You are the one who brought up you saving patches to disks as an advantage of physical media and my reply is that that is actually a point in favor of digital media.


    If you don't want to be given advice on money management don't ask others to give you half their money :shrug:
    I just told you how I could afford my PC, I stopped buying stuff for no reason and saved for half a year, got a mid level pc.

    People don't actually buy phoens nowadays, you just get the plan and they give you the phone so with that you don't even need to save money.

    And if you can't afford games, the digital would be even more beneficial to you.
     
  15. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I wasn't trying to convince anybody about anything, really. Just that it comes down to a matter of preference, and each has its own ups and downs.

    You're missing the point. It isn't about it being specifically "just 4 days". What if Steam decided to be retarded about it, and suspend the account indefinitely, for some reason? Also, try to put yourself in Risewild's shoes. What'd you feel about being unable to access your games for quite a while, not knowing what will Steam decide in the end, and you've spend your hard-earned money on it?

    Also, please remember that on Steam, you didn't actually buy the game; in fact, you merely buy the 'right' to play to game. I'm sure Risewild has already said it, and thus if one day Steam collapsed or just decide something malicious for someone because they misunderstood something or whatever reason, then all those games you've paid for would just gone. Poof.

    Yeah, you could argue Steam ain't going anywhere and it's a moot point. But please note that GOG is still growing and its main strength is by virtue of DRM-free where you ACTUALLY buy the games instead of the 'right' to play it, and there's far less hassle to share the games since you could simply download the installer, instead of having to go through Steam (and thus, make it more difficult to share the games). Not to mention GOG nicely package the game with all of the necessary tweaks and patches most of the time, means the game work right out of the box, while a Steam copy would most definitely need to be manually tweaked, patched, and even modded when it comes to older games.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  16. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    It's a joke. That is intended for short term use (like laptop gaming during a train ride); it is not suitable as a year-round solution.

    _________

    Here was my experience with the FO:New Vegas Collector's DVD; needless to say, I was not amused.

     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  17. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I've never have that happen to me, not even on big ass games.
     
  18. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    You're aware that Steam's DRM is an (anti piracy that must work well enough considering devs and publishers pay for it still) OPTIONAL service, right? There's a lot of games that don't actually need you to even be logged in, let alone online, to play them.

    GOG themselves have said they use DRM because of the sheer concept of streaming. If you deleted or lost the game, and I somehow doubt it's viable to keep all your GOG games in constant storage unless you have a spare terabyte HDD, and then GOG also went away in a similar scenario, it'd be the exact same situation.

    Games that get delisted to not be bought anymore, you can still keep for as long as you don't contact support to actively remove them. Like Dark Souls 2011 or LawBreakers, I can still install them, where, physical format would have it even worse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  19. Squadcar

    Squadcar Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jun 1, 2018
    Arnust is right, I forget about that. Here's a list. I don't know how often it's checked up on or updated though.
    https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

    I don't think anti-piracy being paid for is much of an endorsement for the anti-piracy method seeing as companies still bought other anti-piracy measures that were known to fail within a few days of games being launched with it.
     
  20. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Anti piracy measures are at their most effective on the release margin, where cracks and such may still struggle to make it "avaleible". It doesn't seem like much but it must be absolutely noticeable when as soon as people can buy it some fuckball loads it with malware and throws it on the preferred pirate downloads site. And that's just guessing, I'm sure there's other reasons to justify to keep paying for that.

    People, for some reason, get the impression devs and publishers are obligated to make their game avaleible for the ages when that's none of their business and sometimes even detrimental when later bringing ports, remakes and other types of rereleases, sometimes even sequels. It's shitty? Well, sure, but this isn't any different if not better than how it was with the dominating physical format. Digital and streaming have proven to help preserve and justify rereleases as, for those doing it, it's a way smaller investment and effort than what a full distribution effort would've needed.