Gun Control

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    DarkCorp,

    you're Chinese-American right? There's been plenty of wars between China and USA and it you haven't experienced any racism in USA because you have Chinese heritage then you are an exception. Then again Chinese have had full human rights in USA and blacks haven't, if you're trying to flip this into anti-black thing. Now with this Trump-thing etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese looking folks would be next on the 'line of fire' of the US racists. They've already gone after the Jews, you really think they like 'Chinks' more?
     
  2. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    You know how I know your a racist, because everything boils down to race for you. What human rights are African Americans missing right now that the Asian Americans get or for that mater Caucasians?? When has the US been at war with China? I know there have been wars with some Asian nations, but with China? In fact in you look at the stats for who by ethnic background in the US has the best standard of living it is Asians. Where the hell do you even get the shit you spew from your hate filled mouth?
     
  3. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Mutant

    I merely elaborated that a great deal of minorities in this country absolutely have no problems with the law. This goes against your assumption that racism is everywhere or there is some kind of conspiracy to 'get brown peoples'.
     
  4. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    So you're saying there is no systemic racism present?
     
  5. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Where is the specific system that is racist? The specific institution?

    There are INDIVIDUAL racists, sure. I do not disagree with that.

    I think institutional racism is way too broad, and in most cases that claim it, have other factors in play.

    Powdered cocaine for example, is not nearly as cheap, therefore, not nearly as prolific, as other drugs are, like crack cocaine. A better comparison would be more like Crack Cocaine and Crystal Meth.

    The sub-prime crisis you say?

    There are instances where government or pressure from the left, has forced banks to lend to folks who really do not have the credit score to warrant the loan. Nobody made 'minorities', sign these loans. Nobody had a gun to their head? If someone making $30k a year thinks they can afford a $200,000 home, they are fucking idiots.

    Cops shooting blacks?

    I and others here have already agreed that police need more training and YES, there were some racist police officers who shoot first due to skin color. I highly doubt however, one could say that law enforcement, as an institution, is all about shooting black people or nabbing them off the streets for no reason.

    A lot of institutional racism did happen, IN THE PAST. While yes, those actions have put some groups into a disadvantaged situation, it hardly qualifies as CURRENT institutional racism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  6. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    "Institutional" or "systemic" racism is a very loosely defined term that can be basically everything if it fits your argument. It serves to redefine "racism" so there can never be no racism, there'll always be something systemic. Because the violence is inherent in the system, of course!

    All the *isms have been quietly redefined to use a lot of lingo from postmodernist philosophers so they will always be present, and can be basically everything.
     
  7. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    That's exactly what an oppressor from the tyrannical patriarchy would say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  8. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    As Ukrainian-Canadian, you're also an 'oriental'. You might have some mongol or hun genetic heritage.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9519487

    Crack cocaine is not cheaper than powder cocaine. Not sure why you even brought up this subject. :-?

    Sub-prime crisis? Wat? :question:

    And about US cops targeting blacks.

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2016...-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities

    Been going on for hundreds of years btw.
     
  9. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    Shit you have no idea man, 3 grand parents immigrated to Canada straight from Ukraine, so there is most defiantly some mixing of that kind in there, but then there is the other quarter were they went and enjoyed a good portion of Europe before immigrating to the US where my great grandfather married a Metis. Multiculturalism at its finest.
     
  10. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    https://americanaddictioncenters.org/cocaine-treatment/differences-with-crack

    https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/drugs/cocaine/crack-vs-cocaine/

    There is no definitive cost as things obviously change between cities, location, etc, but overall, crack cocaine was meant to be and generally, is cheaper.

    I brought up Crack Cocaine Vs Powdered because we have some folks who have tried to use the argument that police unfairly go after Crack Cocaine users, whom they say are predominately black, as an example of systemic racism. Thing is, when compared to other drugs of the same ease of distribution and proliferation, like Crystal Meth, they are essentially the same. Guess who are predominant users of Crystal Meth?

    The same with the Sub Prime Crisis. We have folks out there that say the sub prime crisis is an example of institutional racism when it isn't the case.

    Police shootings on blacks

    Which institution?

    Did the police academy specifically teach cadets to shoot blacks? Did the precincts specifically have orders to shoot blacks more often than whites? Did the chiefs of police or the command structure specifically order police officers to target blacks for shootings?

    Again, most of these shootings are based on INDIVIDUAL officers, not some monolithic law enforcement entity or standard operating guideline.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Crack cocaine isn't cheaper and really isn't even different from powder cocaine.

    If there was similar influx of drugs into wealthy white areas the US society would do something about it. Same thing with the influx of illegal weapons into black areas. If there is a shooting in a white neighbourhood the cops will pounce on it. A shooting in a black neighbourhood? Cops don't care.

    Sub prime crisis originated from the US and given the overall domestic and foreign politics of US, yea one could say that it is connected to racist policies, yes. I'm sure it influenced black folks more than it did white US follks.

    Well I already posted a link about US cops targeting blacks, something they have been doing for centuries, so...yea.
     
  12. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Mutant

    Crack Cocaine VS Powder

    Except you have your sources and I have mine, which say different things. But we will agree to disagree on that one.

    Sub Prime

    How is it racist? Did banks FORCE minorities into loans? So, banks don't lend to minorities, RACISM. Banks are forced to or voluntary lend to minorities, RACISM.

    Neighborhoods

    White flight, RACISM. People and corporations re-invest into a neighborhood, RACISM/GENTRIFICATION.

    Cops

    Even if it were the case, where is the INSTITUTIONAL part? The whole issue with institutional racism is there has to be an institution that specifically orders its people to be racist. Just because a postal worker is racist doesn't mean the whole postal system is.
     
  13. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Dark Corp,

    have you been in the US police academy/police training? Do you know anyone who has? And didn't you guys already agree US police training does have problems? So...err...what?

    There are individuals who gravitate to being cop because they are racists.


    But there is also institutional racism, meaning the training (which is very very short) is racist. The police stations where cops work are lead by racist police chiefs who are mainly white etc.

    And yes, there is a link between drug use including "crack cocaine", the US economy including the sub prime crisis, etc. and US gun violence.
     
  14. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Mutant

    I am going to assume that you are trying to be funny with the police academy example.

    "Training', is very broad. When I agree our police need better or more training, I mean on other issues. For example, they need to stop going to the wrong peoples houses, and in some instances, shooting/killing the wrong people. Deescalation training within reason can also be lumped in. Better training in regards to dealing with people who have mental/physical disabilities, animals, etc.

    And yes, I know members of police and former police officers. Not at anytime, have they mentioned that at the police academy, they are taught to go shoot black people. They were not taught to go after specific races either.

    Seriously, we couldn't stop people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden from leaking higher level type secrets. You actually believe that the police academies could keep secret, blatantly racist policies? Especially in the recent political atmosphere?

    And since Crni, (and you) brought it up, it is on you to point out specific, police regulations, that are inherently racist, or police chiefs that were proven to be inherently racist. Same with the banking institutions.

    All I have been getting from you are broad, over generalized statements, where as I have been providing you with specific examples of what people THINK is institutional racism, but really is not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  15. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    DarkCorp,

    I already posted a study about US cops targeting blacks disproportionately. It could be that your political view stops you from seeing the institutional racism of the US police clearly, or at all really.

    I guess you don't even get along with NMA member Carib who's black.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  16. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Mutant

    Are you even reading what I post?? And just because I lean conservative doesn't mean I do not get along with black people. Man you are fucking racist.

    Let me say it again ok?

    You are pointing out INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS OF RACISM.

    What I want you to point out.

    SHOW me where police POLICY, as in the STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE or specific ORDERS, where police chiefs SPECIFICALLY TELL their officers underneath them, TO SPECIFICALLY BE RACIST.

    So at the police academy, show me a SPECIFIC example of where trainees are taught to SPECIFICALLY, RACIALLY PROFILE, latinos and blacks, ONLY. Not from a stupid fucking movie that's trying to be funny, but a REAL example.

    All I see from you is actions of INDIVIDUAL police officers. There is nothing SYSTEMIC about it unless you can prove otherwise.

    You want to know an example of institutional racism?

    Nazi Germany. At every level, every institution was racist.

    Educational Establishment

    Jews were allowed to go to school. Jews were not allowed to teach. The individual colleges would not and could not accept Jewish professors.

    Government

    Jews were not allowed to be employed by the government. This was LAW, completely OFFICIAL.

    Medical Establishment

    Jews couldn't be doctors.

    INSTITUTIONS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  17. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Well if you check the daily media you'll examples. This video for example is 'trending' today. Black guy covered up his cell window and didn't uncover it quick enough, as a result he got badly beaten by a raging cop.



    Still, this is the gun violence -thread. Maybe make a new thread about race issues? Gun violence and race issues are linked, and US police is racist, and also bad against US whites and other minorities.
     
  18. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    So using your example,

    For it to be INSTITUTIONAL, there needs to be orders for the cop to beat him up for this type of infraction. For example, this cop has been taught that it is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, to beat up all black males, who do not uncover their windows fast enough. There needs to be a set guideline that states that violence is expected when dealing with inmates and window situations. Rule book saying if the target does not comply within 10 seconds, do this. 20 seconds, do this. And so on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  19. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    "Institutional" means that there's some unconscious, unprovable thing affecting culture that makes cops being more prone to whack the shit out of black people than white people, or makes them stop black people for "random" controls more often. It's a very rubbery term that can mean anything, and since social scientists seem to think that whoever spots a correlation can make up the causal relation without any further proof, anything can be constructed as "this is racism/sexism/*phobia".
    It's the same with "systemic", they're weasel words that are there to make people sound really smart and knowledgable when they're really just making shit up as they go.
     
  20. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Exactly Haas

    This is the reason why I brought up Nazi Germany.

    Those wacky Nazis made racism into an art form. They shoved racism into everything they could get their hands on.

    From private/social affairs to laws that affected every institution/system. Jews and other undesirables were effectively and efficiently excluded from everything.

    The closest thing to 'institutional', would be literally, what we had before and during the civil rights era. It wasn't a single principle or teacher, it was the whole damn school. It wasn't just a city or town, it was the whole damn state. It wasn't unsaid racism but blatantly INSTITUTIONAL. They had SIGNS for crying out loud, proudly proclaiming, 'WHITES ONLY'. That is your institution. That is your SYSTEM. The army was segregated, by LAW. Woman had no voting rights, by LAW. Women cannot go into combat, by LAW. Gays cannot marry, by LAW.

    So a police example would be a national law that allows or even encourages, officers to go after SPECIFICALLY Latinos and Blacks. A standard operating procedure that goes into detail on how it is ok to treat black and Hispanic criminals one way and whites and other races another way. This cannot be a single or a couple of officers but every damn precinct, in every town/city, in every state.