Gun Control

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric Putting Food on your Family Since 1650 Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    I don't have energy to fully go into the details, but I have an idea on how a society involving guns should work.

    Fully Volunteer Professional Army, no conscription, draft only legal if an enemy occupies friendly territory.

    Get rid of macho-gun culture. In highschool, the last 2 years are a basic version of ROTC. Lax, very slack. No yelling or screaming just positive reinforcement and competitiveness. Educate population on military subjects, firearms, basic war-fighting, tactics, strategy, history, ethics, ect.

    If you don't want kids going out and buying guns because it's "Cool" or makes them feel "powerful", put them in school and make the subject boring as hell. Have instructors watching the roost of chickens like a hawk and make safety and positive attitude the highest priority.

    Putting firearms into the curriculum that is already required in public school, along with mental well-being education will go a long way to sort this mess out.

    However public paramilitaries have a tendency of pacifying the public because everyone wants to be an operator before you have to do some operator shit and spend 48 hours digging a hole into limestone. The draft caused regular people into the armed forces, causing the end of the Vietnam War. You have to have an agreed upon social and moral contract for using state sanctioned violence with the general populace. Doing that would cut down the numbers Haliburton and Phiser will be able to bribe and brainwash into their mercenary forces, so of course you have to fight political corruption first, or trick the elites into thinking this will benefit them.

    They will also be afraid if the people have the ability to form their own militias. You're living in a dream if you think the U.S. still abides by the constitution. The tyranny has already instituted itself, slowly over time like a frog slowly boiling in a pot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Just make the US in to Switzerland.

    Should fix all problems. Or most of them. You can even keep the hate/fear/what-ever against muslims, since that's a thing in Switzerland too.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric Putting Food on your Family Since 1650 Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Only the Kwisatz Haderach can solve that.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  4. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    This might actually work. Our mandatory military service kind of achieves that goal. Also, when you've seen artillery fire, bazookas, missiles, rockets, etc., some little civilian peashooter isn't going to impress you that much. Then again, some might be 'excited' by all that and become interested in guns etc. So, dunno.

    But the "make it boring" - part works IMHO.
     
  5. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Misanthropic God of Rations Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
  6. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    You simply don't take my Popeye's chicken, motherfucker!
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
  8. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric Putting Food on your Family Since 1650 Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Texas is a shit hole.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  9. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Misanthropic God of Rations Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Yes it is.
     
  10. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  11. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    So let me get this straight, a guy does not shoot a robber for robbing a store, but does shoot him for pointing a gun at his family, and the conclusion is Texas is a shit hole???? Seems to me like a good use of a gun on the fathers part, plus one less dirtbag who misuses guns is now gone. A big plus for Texas in my opinion.
     
  12. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    The cop of the Arizona case went off completely free of charges. Only got fired from the force two months later, (!). Also, the forensics said that when he got his hand to the waist he just wanted to get his pants up.

    Seems like the widow is going to want to appeal, but we all know how this goes.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I never uderstood this glorification of cops in such cases. Hell yes, I get it it's a difficult job, many of them risk their lifes, but isn't that what they chose? Isn't that what their training prepares them for?
     
  14. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    They're public state servants, like firemen or tax collectors. Glorification of the security forces is usually an attempt at a facade of security, effective or not.
     
  15. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    The cop made a number of retarded mistakes, gave unclear/contradictory instructions and was too triggerhappy, even by american standards. However, there is no way he could know the guy was not pulling a firearm.
    Therefor the shoot was justified (by american norms).

    It's sad, but that's how the system works.
    You don't fire a cop that's under investigation, you put him on suspension or unpaid leave.
    Innocent until proven guilty also applies to cops.

    We now know the guy was drunk from doing rum shots, was very confused with the instructions he was given and was absentmindedly trying to pull up his pants after having been warned not to let his hands go near his waist/belt. But the cop didn't know that.

    The reason the cop ordered the guy to crawl towards him was that if they tried to put the guy in cuffs where he was, the cops would be exposed to attack from the junction, which was not possible to easily secure. They did not know if someone was in the room (with the rifle which was reported and which caused the intervention).

    What is notable is that when the woman failed to follow instructions and kept advancing is that she did not get shot. But that's (fe)male privilege for you. ;)
    How it goes is that the criminal lawsuit clears the cop, and that then the civil courts judges him as guilty and awards the widow a wrongful death compensation or the police department settles out of court and pays anywhere between 500,000 and 3,000,000 USD to the family. From the people's tax dollars, obviously.

    Justice, american style.

    New York city alone, pays out an average of 50 million USD on a yearly basis to wrongful victims of the NYPD. (negligent or accidental discharge, wrongful death, physical abuse, etc)
     
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What really surprises me is how many americans actually are like this :

     
  17. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    American cops get shot by the dozens each year. They are trained & drilled to shoot when they see someone reach for their waist. The reason is simple, a person drawing tends to shoot quicker than someone reacting, so if you wait to identify what the person is pulling out of his belt, you end up dead.

    To compound the issue, in the USA you're in legal issues if you decide to shoot a wounding shot on purpose. To use lethal force (firing your gun) you need to be faced with a proportional threat. If you decide to try to wound someone instead of shoot to kill, you by definition show that you did not deem the threat dangerous enough to kill someone. And therefor you wrongfully used lethal force (even if you didn't kill the person you shot).

    It's easy to say that these policies and mindsets are wrong, from a european perspective. However, we are not faced with the same level of violence & threat as the american cops and our laws are quite different when it comes to use of force.

    From my point of view, the cops should have let the guy remain prone, and have approached him there without commanding him to crawl forward. But as explained above, it made tactical sense to change his location without endangering the police officers.
    My analysis of the shooting from the video sources available, is that the shooting was legally justified, but severely misguided and in part caused by the behavior of the police officer.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I don't want to insult you, but that rationalisation, is pretty useless for those that got killed for what you can consider a rather small mistake. At the end of the day, a life was wrongfully taken.

    And this is what confuses me. If cops argue like that, than I can understand it, they put their lifes on the line, I don't agree with it but I understand it.

    However, as a civilian you're on the other side of the spectrum. The idea that a 'stupid' mistake could actually kill me because there are trigger happy cops runing around seeing every civilian as a potential killer, isn't really a very comforting thought. I always saw the police as a public servant, to protect me, not someone that I should 'fear'.

    Now you can always say, well just do what the cop says! Easy to say this, yeah. But someone pointing with a gun at you, can do all sorts of things to 'average' people. And mistakes can still happen. Or what ever, let us say you're simply drunk in that moment, as in the case above. Don't get drunk? I knew a lot of people that would get drunk each weekend and do sometimes shit, but nothing serious, they got into issues with the police sometimes for starting a fight or kicking trashcans and that sort of stuff. But that kind of behaviour doesn't justify shooting them because the cops have been in 'fear' for their life. What are they paid and trained for in the first place? To act like an occuping force?

    What really disturbs me in such cases is that cops are described like this:


    And many americans feel absolutely fine with that situation. Cuz that's how it is! And how it always was!

    I know that it's a difficult job, but there is still no justification for it in my opinion. And that is not an 'european' view, but simply for a so called civiliced society.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Misanthropic God of Rations Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Crni being Crni.

    This situation will continue to go on like this as long as we are the largest gun manufacturer/arms dealer in the world. We need better cops, but this involves training them better and giving them more funding and they are already armed like the fucking military.
     
  20. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    I don't remember Judge Dredd, or Dirty Harry for that matter, blowing away more or less innocent folks. They always got the really bad guys, and Dirty Harry didn't even shoot unarmed bad guys. These US cops are killing poor folks, black and white. With military weapons, AR's etc. Or choking them to death like that one "I can't breathe" - guy. Or shoot them in the back like the Walter Scott -shooter cop. Etc.

    The only cinematic equivalent that comes to mind is ED-209. The glitchy cop-robot.



    Or maybe Tackleberry from the Police Academy if he was really really racist and evil and had military weapons.