Gun Control

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Good ole Scalps. The situation does look pretty terrifying, though.
     
  2. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    At least 16 dead. Hooray NRA!
     
  3. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    It has nothing to do with them.
     
  4. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, you're right. But Nothing that more guns couldn't fix though ;).

    Makes you kinda wonder though, at which point will the market be saturated with 'safety'? If every citizen has 2 fire arms? 3? Maybe 5? We have to wait and see I guess.
     
  5. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Not every citizen (here) is allowed to own a firearm; nor even to vote. The crimes often associated with misuse of guns, are typically done by people that shouldn't have them—and likely don't care what the law allows them to possess. Passing a law to forbid all people from gun ownership won't stop these people, and would lead to a classic example of "Why we can't have nice things".

    Such a law would render the common citizenry defenseless, and encourage the criminal element to be all the more brazen for having guns, with the knowledge that their victims do not. Even if they rounded up all of the guns in the country—which they can't, more would be smuggled in, or secretly manufactured outright, and sold to those who would pay the—then very inflated cost.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  6. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Yeah, no. Those super mean people would still be affected even if in the slightest, and unless they happen to shit firearms, in the long term it'd apply to them too. That's how every legislation ever worked.

    Of course, and that's the classic viewpoint of "the average Citizien would NEVER become a criminal!". Bad news, all of those bad guys are or were citiziens with their gun or w/e. For real, the point of gun control is to construct and add hoops to the process. People who still need or want it should get it eventually just fine, even if that is risking to spawn more "bad guy with a gun". The reason why school shootings and other criminality among the under aged are particularly notable in a way, aside of the horror it must be, is that even the most below ever age gun control system should be able to avoid that. And sure, school "shootings" will happen. Except they'll be, say, set fires, homemade crossbows and Melee weapons. Which have a radically lower lethality and are easier to stop, albeit at the expense that violent video games will be blamed after the act :D
     
  7. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Do you seriously believe this, or are you just pulling my lanyard? Those people won't make the guns; that requires intelligence. Other people will make the guns and sell them at absurd profit, for their artificial scarcity.

    WTH are you talking about? Why even put this into typed text?

    That is a very naive assumption IMO; on several points—not least of which the part about setting fires or using crossbows.

    **Also I believe that violent video games are indeed an influential part of it. There is a reason that the military used them for desensitization, and even as a recruitment gateway (drug).
     
  8. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Doesn't that literally prove my point? And you're thinking of banning, anyway.
     
  9. Buxbaum666

    Buxbaum666 Heterostructured Nanorod oTO Orderite

    Dec 5, 2003
    I think I once saw a survey involving criminals and those who used guns in their crimes often stated self-defence as a main reason. A more heavily armed populace might lead to more heavily armed criminals. And of course a larger pool of available guns, since gun theft is a major source for illegal weapons
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  10. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    You are trying to talk sense to a wall. Or, a closed vault door, behind which live the gun-nuts of US. They only listen to their overseer, the NRA, for all wisdom.
     
  11. Lanfear

    Lanfear Mildly Dipped

    Jan 26, 2016
    Of course it does, they're the largest pro-gun lobbying group in the country. Every time an event like this occurs they mobilise to start shovelling money at legislators, in order to curb potential public outcry against the consequences normal citizens face for their country having useless gun laws and an insane amount of firearms in circulation.

    ...is not something that anyone sensible is actually proposing.

    If they rounded up all the guns in the country and slashed the number of them in general circulation, it would become magnitudes harder for criminals to acquire them and thus would reduce the amount of crime committed with guns. That's the whole point. Smuggling guns into a country or manufacturing them illicitly are incomparible in terms of difficulty with being able to rob the home of a gun owner and walk away carrying eight stolen guns (that's the average number of guns that a gun owner in the US possesses, itself an absolutely ridiculous figure).
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    As far as I can tell that's kinda the point, increase the price so much, that it becomes less of an option for the 'average' thug out there. It's a difference if they cost 300 or 3 000 or even as much like 10 000$ to get one because the risk to aquire the weapon is so high. Of course you can not prevent criminals from ever getting them, just as you can not prevent crime in general regardless how severe the punishment is or how difficult you make it to perform crimes. But the idea isn't to make it impossible anyway, just more difficult. Certain weapons though, like automatic firearms should be always banned outright in my opinion.

    To say that there is no relationship between the number of liegal and legal weapons in a society however, is in my opinion a bit naive. Obviously we're talking here about a complex topic, but the US has created over the last 30 to 40 years a very elaborated and in some cases outright toxic gun culture where weapons are synomus with 'liberty' and 'freedom' and even the slightes criticism is seen by some, if you want extremists, as unpatriotic, children are exposed to it already at a very young age and I do not believe in the healthiest of ways. We're speaking of parents that are more afraid of their kidz becoming gay by watching spongebob than handling a pistol as 5-6 year olds. But I realize that we're talking her about a minority, however it is a very influental minority and a very vocal one with excelent conections. And let us not even talk about how the gun industry in the US earns a tremendiously amount of money by not just selling weapons in the US, but also abroad and not all of those weapons end up in the hands of the 'good guys', as we know today ISIS aquird a large number of weapons by foreign powers which also included a subatnatial number of weapons sold by the US to Iraq for example. Of course they havn't been directly sold to terrorists, but they often get them from people who are affiliated one way or another with groups that got supplied by the US. It's an really ugly business and I feel a lot of US citizens close their eyes here and pretend like there is no conection at all, particularly the gun fanatics. The US is pretty much the largest distributor of firearms in the world. And that's a fact.

    You know, just like in Lord of War - excelent movie by the way. The amounf of weapons the 'president' sells in one day, can be more than some private contractor ships in one year ...


    I can see where this idea of guns = liberty is coming from, even if I think there is a bit more to it than just that - just as how guns don't kill people guns don't make liberty, they are merely tools.

    I am NOT(!) Judging this, but I think this highlights a very important cultural difference between most Westeuropan nations and the US, where we see weapons merely as a tool that you can use to get your freedom and liberty trough revolutions or even wars, but in the end you need actually people which are ready to fight and protect for those values and who believe in them which needs more than just armed civilians. Where as I have sometimes the feeling many US citizens believe all you need is 'just' a good ol gun in everyones hand! And liberty will follow. If only it was that easy.


    That's not who Gizmo is - neither Suaside for that matter. Don't insult his/their intelligence. It makes you look like a lunatic. They are long time members and I kinda know how they roll.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  13. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Couldn't care less how I look like to you, I'm not gay. Btw, being a long time member here does not make one immune to the NRA's ideology, as it seems to be the case.

    Bigger death toll than Columbine.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics...exceeded-columbine.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_ru
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What has being gay to do with anything of this?

    The same works also from the other side, where you see enemies at every corner and everyone as wrong just because they disagree with your view on things. That's the thing with 'ideology', you always see more flaws with others than your self.

    All I am telling you right now, is that I kinda 'know' Sua and Gizmo, and they are not the kind of people you describe here. We disagree on a lot of gun-related topics, but they are not extremists to say it that way, they merely have their own view and opinion on some issues and you throw them together with people they simply are not a part of. And that's not generally a good thing to do, and I ask you kindly to refrain from that. But do as you please, as no one will take you seriously anyway with that attitude.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  15. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    We should ban schools and public places, there are way too many shootings in those places.
    Jokes aside, things are, as it often happens after such an event, quite heated in here, so I'd like to ask you to :unload: and :push: a bit.
    Calm down and remember that the guys here are actual, real people and not some caricature out of whatever propaganda leaflet you've been reading last.
     
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  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008


    Solution:


    Bullet proof school bags of course.
     
  17. Lanfear

    Lanfear Mildly Dipped

    Jan 26, 2016
    The "protected front view" looks like a schoolbag-person with tiny little legs.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The army realeased a 'school shooting simulator' for schools to see if they are well protected against school-shootings. The comment section of the youtube video is full of people making gamer jokes.

    I love the USA.
     
  19. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Wouldn't it me more cost effective to make bulletproof shirts than backpacks? Unless it's an XXL there seems to be the same amount of material.