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Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jul 25, 2016.
It's the 'wild west' bro, love it or leave it.
"Danger in the dance floor"
With new gun control legislation (that I made up) created by people that can't differentiate a Howitzer from a Pellet Gun, scenes/movies like this would be impossible due to liberal tears drowning the world in 40 years of salt.
I'll give you that one. Your current gun laws (made up by people 250 years go that didn't knew about assault weapons), at least make almost all action movies coming from the US believable.
I wonder if this will have any effect whatsoever? Nah. They will drive somewhere else to get the guns like everywhere else.
I'd like to see gun rights supporters volunteer at schools and act as human shields. I mean, they're always going on about how they'd die for their rights, so now they have a chance to prove it.
If you believe in human rights, here's something you'll be interested in. If you hate human rights and think the state's decisions trump all, here's something you'll be offended by.
Do you read your posts before posting them?
You misunderstand. It's not about dieing for your rights, it's about making the other poor bastard die for them. Well, I guess that's a bit paraphrased.
Jokes aside, how about we don't wish for people to die just because we disagree with them, eh?
I honestly don't wish anyone to die. I tend to have a very dry sense of humor, and like to turn people's hypocrisies back on them.
I know, just felt obligated to comment on that since the post has been reported. This is a highly emotional topic for everyone, so I guess we'd all do our best and keep the humour to a minimum, although I also find that very hard to do.
Well, what still does not work for me, is this kind of cognitive dissonance for the lack of better words.
Argument : "Guns don't kill people! People kill people! Don't blame guns, they are an inanimate object!"
Argument 2: "Guns protect us from tyranny! Our constitutional rights!"
I don't think the pro-gun folks have any kind of science or actual facts supporting their side so what they do is use a bunch of slogans and try to wear down the critics with them.
They do, though.
The vast majority of gun-related violence is committed with handguns, so massive restrictions on "assault rifles"/semi automatic rifles won't help much. Due to the sheer ubiquity of handguns, any restriction on handguns on the other hand will be extremely costly or outright impractical.
And even then, the aforementioned ubiquity of handguns (and guns in general) will lead to a thriving black market and not really a reduction in gun violence, but instead to an increase in crime due to criminalization of of formerly legal guns. Basically, it'd be the war on drugs all over again, with the people pushing for decriminalization of drugs to criminalization of guns.
Thing is that 1) there are too many guns in the US and 2) the ownership of guns is too deeply rooted in their culture to change it any time soon.
I don't think the Europeans among us can really understand the relationship that US citizens have with guns. Here in Europe we never really had much access to guns, and in those countries that do (Switzerland), the situation is entirely different.
Massively restrictive gun laws don't do much unless the entire culture changes, but that's not going to happen with those pushing for said cultural change being absolute pillocks about it.
Current statistics say that 45 percent of the U.S. population owns guns. We have 320 million people in this country. There are already too many guns in circulation to make any sort of ban/major restriction effective.
That's all of course true, but culture can change. Who knows how the situation might look like in 50 years.
Americans shouldn't give up hope that their nation might one day become like Switzerland. Healthcare, good education, good wellfare, high standard of living, true democracy. We believe in you America!
The problem is that all the changes necessary go against the very core of the american origin and against all its core principles.
Not going to happen. And maybe it's not a good idea to advocate for the necessary changes with blatantly advocating Marxism. That's slightly counter productive.
Robot slavery will get us there one day, well everything except fixing the gun situation.
Another civil war? *shrugs*
In all seriousness you're right though. And to be honest I really love this american idea of individualism and personal responsibility, it is a core value for many US citizens, the liberties and freedom and all that comes with it. But honestly, I just don't see how that's going to work in the future and societies like the US one will be in for a very rude awakening. Particularly when I actually believe that our socities will become a lot more restrictive with rules and regulations in the not so distant future, what kind of food we consume, the kind of products we can buy, how much electricity everyone gets and so on. That is if we continue on our current path, with all this overproduction, overconsumption, excessive pollution and idea of limitless economic growth. Sure, we can writte such nice things like 'persue of happyness' in our constitutions and personal liberties going over everything all we want, but at the end of the day, we're living on a planet with limitted resources and if that limit is reached it's simply finished. Prosperty for everyone? I am afraid that's a pipe dream and we will be lucky if the society in the future can provide us with what's necessary to have somewhat decent lives without starving and killing the planet in the process. Future generations will have to do a lot more sacrifices I think.
No problem, I would still have a better chance of being killed walking to the school.
Let me fix argument 2 here:
"Guns allow us to protect ourselves from tyranny. Which our constitution has enshrined as a right that shall not be infringed".
Also just since we through this stuff out there.
"Drunk drivers don't kill people, cars do!" See what I did there.
Just because you refuse to look at all the facts given to you does not mean we have none. Most of the facts on the control side are really emotions like "I feel".
Yes, and drunk driving is heavily punished while cars are also heavily regulated. There are states where you can get easier access to weapons than a driving licence. But that's all for 'Muh freedoms!'.
But even if I use your example, "Guns allow us to protect ourselves from tyranny." than this still isn't entirely correct. Guns for themself, protect you from nothing. Seriously, if 90% of the american citizens would believe a dictatorship is the right thing to go for because a modern day version of Hitler or Stalin managed to convince them, the constitution would loose its meaning. And weapons wouldn't make much of a difference here, because at the end of the day what you need is a majority that is willing to actually stand up for it.
What we have to accept here, is that we're not talking about rights, but actaully about privileges, granted to the individual by the society they live in. And those can be striped away from us, rather easily when we think about it. Like if we look at US citizens with japanese herritage during WW2. They had all the rights. But did anyone stood up to defend them? No. Because the overwhelming majority agreed with the actions of their government, or was at least silent/indifferent about it.
Having a constitution and weapons is worth nothing if the people don't see a need to act.
How many of the pro-gun folks from US here have even visited Europe? Just asking because I'm genuinely interested to know.