How long does it take to become a ghoul and how long does it take to become feral?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by lolpop109, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    For my mod i want to make a faction that oppessive with trying to become ghouls and trying to understand them. So i need some help on the time line it would take to become a ghoul and what makes ghouls feral.

    My idea is that they go to a radiated bomb site and do a little ritual and try to get more radiated so they can become a ghoul. Ovi some die in possess but if you take enough radiation you surely turn into a ghoul. I'm only confused by this cuz the children of atom are always getting radiated and you would thing some of them would be a ghouls ?

    So yeah I need your guys opion what the lore actually is and surely if you do take enough radation you either die or become a ghoul
     
  2. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    The Children of Atom, as of Far Harbor, are mutants immune to radiation damage.
     
  3. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Urgh the Children of Atom. They shouldn't exist as they do. One person being immune to radiation is daft but I can accept a one-off, but a whole bunch of people? Bollocks I say.

    Anyways, it varies. Private Edwards at Camp Searchlight became a ghoul fairly quickly after to the Legion's attack using radioactive materials, however his comrades became feral. Yet most others become ghouls after months. I'd say most people trying to intentionally become ghouls die of radiation poisoning like Trash did, whilst those who do become ghouls do so after a number of months or maybe a year. As for feral, I couldn't really say since some ghouls become feral after too much radiation yet others aren't affected.
     
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  4. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    Thanks for the reply. I've got a good idea of what I think now. The faction is going to try and build tolerance to radiation. The more rads you have the higher worth you have this is because there base is surrounded by radiation meaning it keeps them safe (Not just doing for shits and giggles) and to pass the test to become an official member you have to pass a test.
     
  5. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    Honestly, if you come up with a good motivation as to why they like radiation go for it.
    If not, maybe reconsider the idea.

    Ooh mr lolpop, uh I have an idea: maybe a faction that goes to the ancient alien city under the magic mojave- that would be mucho fresh
     
  6. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    lol

    I hate to think of it being similar to the children of atom but I don't think it is at all. Instead of being regloius it more like the leader has alot of charisma like a cult. He inducts people from the wastes and keeps them safe. There hide out at an old church makes a good base as its near a radioactive area and also they have added radiation as well that protects them .They test their members and try to build up their resistance to radaition so they can live in the safety of the church. They mainly take in poor people who don't have enough caps to live in one of settlements in Atlanta or have lost their caps via gambling prostitution ect. The induction to be coming a full time member is jumping into a radiated pool. Once you survive that you're allowed to live in the safety of the old church
     
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  7. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    Ghoulification has been treated pretty inconsistently throughout the franchise. so a lot of the blanks are left for you to fill in as you please. The process has been depicted as anywhere from near-instantaneous (Moira Brown, the ghoul private at Camp Searchlight in New Vegas) to taking weeks or months. Not everyone even has the potential to become a ghoul, with there necessarily being some sort of selective (possibly genetic) factor that determines whether you die of radiation poisoning or get to live forever as a particularly lively scarecrow, though the mass ghoulification of the Vault 12 residents at Necropolis seems to complicate this question. In the end, the only real consistency with canon would probably be to make sure that you keep things inconsistent, with each individual that actually ghoulifies doing so under circumstances particular to their genetics and their level and duration of radiation exposure.

    As to going feral, that's also a big question mark, though it seems to be a result of neurological damage or degradation: lone ghouls or isolated groups undergoing a sort of senility as they lose more and more of what makes them human, intensely traumatized individuals manifesting something similar to an extreme schizoaffective or psychotic aggressive condition, or-- seemingly common among those transformed quickly by intensely high background counts or close proximity to flashpoint events-- the heavy neurological damage cased by ionizing radiation before/during the change (while their unchanged human tissues are still susceptible to radiation damage), and in many cases two or even all three of these factors will apply in varying degrees. As with the transformation itself, it can be a bit of a crap shoot. In all cases, though, the subject is so irreparably damaged that they're reduced almost entirely to their basal instincts, and even those are inconsistent.

    It would seem, as borne out in the games without being contradicted or explicitly confirmed, that the process of going feral only occurs when the mind or physical brain of a ghoul degenerates enough that they "lose themselves" and regress to reliance on their instinctual function. These conditions are most likely to be met in ghouls transformed by an extremely damaging amount of radiation over a very short period of time, as opposed to by gradual accumulation in their system.

    The only likely ways it would happen to "normal" ghouls whose minds survived the initial transformation would be through long-term "disuse" of their minds, as seen in personality degradation resulting from senility, dementia, or severe dissociative/psychosis-inducing mental states; traumatic brain injury; or through starvation/deprivation. Ghouls need nutrition just as well as intact humans, and long-term malnutrition can have severely damaging effects on the brain. Neurons don't seem to enjoy the same hardiness and rad-regeneration as a ghoul's other tissues (or at least, not nearly at the same level of effectiveness), and over a lot of lean and unsuccessful years (or one or more shorter spans of extreme deprivation), a functionally immortal creature is eventually liable to rack up a lot of brain damage that way.

    (Incidentally, I'd bet dollars to donuts that a lot of the ferals you see in the games went this route-- slowly, slipping away in the weeks and months after the bomb, when the world was a nuclear hell incapable of supporting them. Instead of starving to death, they starved to death-of-self, as it were, and got to watch any surviving friends and loved ones do the same. It's a hell of a sorry way to go, and it adds a lot of poignancy to these otherwise throwaway shamblers.)

    (Sorry for the lack of brevity here-- it's been a long time since I've done a lore post and this one was done off-the-cuff and coming out from under some pretty heavy anesthesia. I obviously can't source a lot of this, since it comes from extrapolation, but what flesh I've hung from the skeleton set up by canon is born of real-world science and long careful observation of the Fallout world.)
     
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  8. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016

    Thanks alot this is really help full. I've slighty changed my idea but it will include this ; The group arn't consdered about becomeing a ghoul if you become a ghoul its a great honor. However you have to past the test to live with them and earn there protection. This is because they the near by radiation to keep them safe. No one comes looking for them so it keeps them safe being away from the radiation. Once getting exposed too radiation you can become a ghoul and be looked at as an elder, Survie but not become a ghoul usally ghouls are old people anyway. Or you can die in proess from radiation (ovi). So yeah there it is , thanks very much for you're response
     
  9. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    Hold on a sec, I thought ghouls were only possible in a environment where FEV interacts with radiation. In the old Fallout games it was explained that FEV in high radiation environments failed to complete a full conversion (like a super mutant) and instead transformed the victims into ghouls. (Harold)

    However there is a great deal of plot holes and hand switching through out the story of the ghoulification process.

    It was my understanding that when the bombs initially fell they managed to strike a location housing quantities of FEV and when the virus was expelled into the atmosphere ghoulificaiton was a potential result.

    But there is the other side of the coin, as FEV was originally developed to be the "cure" for a plague that was wreaking havoc in the United States. Could it be that the plague itself could be the catalyst for ghoulificaiton?

    Either way the original games did not actually have any ghouls that could be classified as "feral" yes they had ghoul encounters where they were default aggressive, but that could also be because of their situation and perception of others. (Chances are your not going to walk up to a zombie and say hi.)

    In Fallout 1 they were slow, shambling individuals who really just wanted to be left alone. But they have now become something far more nefarious which makes me think that the FEV is a large factor in the process. Also FEV was also used to explain away all the monster mutations encountered in the wasteland, so its kind of the mary sue crutch in this case.
     
  10. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
    But its also werid because in fo1 there were dead corpse called zombie guard so I think ghouls where really quit confusing. I have't finished thinking about the faction yet I kinda got and idea for it but its not done so it can still develope. As I think about it more I find more and more little plot holes etc. I mean I will keep thinking about it though cuz I have desgined th elocation but yeah. I wil defintly keep thinking about the whole situation.
     
  11. FalloutIsMyDrug

    FalloutIsMyDrug Former Fo3 Lover(converted)

    Sep 29, 2016
    Bethesda definitely retconned the ghoulification and mutation process. I think their take is almost exclusively based around radiation. Bethesda probably focuses on radiation because it goes with the generic Red Scare idea. It seems like Bethesda thinks radiation=mutation and FEV=super mutant.
     
  12. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    Jan 19, 2016
  13. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Ghouls are changed by radiation only, mutants are changed by the FEV.
     
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  14. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    Jan 19, 2016
    @Risewild
    That is why Harold is Harold and not technically a ghoul. I wish Bethesda hadn't turn him into a tree.
     
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  15. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016
  16. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    I'm glad they decided it was just radiation, FEV is a little overused.

    Risewild's already explained, but I just want to add that Harold was never exposed to high radiation, only the FEV. Also, as the Lieutenant says:

    Wasteland people dipped into the FEV will generally turn into Super Mutants but since they are somewhat immune to it the virus doesn't take full effect, usually leaving them strong but dumb, as was in Harry's case.
     
  17. FalloutIsMyDrug

    FalloutIsMyDrug Former Fo3 Lover(converted)

    Sep 29, 2016
    This could be a good excuse for why the super mutants in 3 are so dumb. You could surmise that the mutants were out of vault dwellers to vat, so they were forced to make lesser ones from wastelanders. This begs the question as to why the super mutants targeted the downtown D.C. ruins instead of vault 101, which is significantly closer. Perhaps they didn't know all of the vault locations and were looking for a map like the one the BoS has.
     
  18. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Ghouls dont go feral, you silly goose.
     
  19. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    Jan 19, 2016
    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Endless_walker
    Also, I remember that Set's son said something about ghouls' brain rotting and he wasn't affected by being ghoulified in a young age which is supported by the idea that Born-Ghouls don't turn feral.
    I would imagine that if ghoulification was a mechanic (which I heard it was going to be a mechanic in Van Buren) it would be dependent on an Endurance and Luck check.
     
  20. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Thats an endless walker tho