"I have served my purpose, now I must die"

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Heh, while playing Fallout New Vegas again I was reminded of something I had not put much heed to in the beginning; NPCs that only exist to tell or give you something after which they run off and apparently seek to end their existence now that they done what they are suppose to do.

    One example is Swanick, the Powder Ganger who won the lottery in Nipton and got to go free by the Legion.
    After having talked to him at the outskirts of Nipton he runs into the desert, in particular to the part that is normally infested with giant rad scorpions if I had not killed them earlier for XP.

    Another example is the NCR ranger who gives you the emergency radio when you standing with the NCR improves which you can use for backup.
    BTW, I always find it amusing that he spawns out of thin air. I usually encounter him at the NCR outpost at the South West corner of the map and when my NCR reputation improves when I talk to Ghost he spawns in the distance above the slope and then drops downwards. I think NCR cracked teleportation technology.
    Anyway after giving me the radio he ran off and I decided to chase him as had heard from Lexx and others that this ranger tends to kill himself often after having done his task, and this time was not an exception either as he went into the hills above the NCR outpost and decided to take on two giant radscorpions which punched of his leg.

    It would of course be unnecessary to give these characters even bigger roles but couldn't the designers at least have programmed the NPCs to go to the closest allied settlement, the ranger for example staying at NCR outpost while Swanick tries to reach the NCR prison?

    Which other NPCs are also suicidal in this game after they have done their task of interacting with you?
     
  2. Ediros

    Ediros A Smooth-Skin

    Feb 4, 2016
    My companions, no Veronica I don't want to get mauled to the death by a deathclaw.

    Legion guys from Nipton who go to search light and die to NCR.

    Logan and his team die to ghouls in search light, unless I kill them myself.

    Well, the caravan which spawns close to Nipton and then gets attacked by raiders and the legion - good storytelling here.

    Oh yeah, Roxie gets killed way too often by rushing forward and getting eaten by nightstalkers.

    Dead Money companions, who stand in front of a ghost people with gas bombs...

    Outside of that, can't remember anything else. The instances you speak about were fairly rare.
     
  3. Alphons

    Alphons Prophet der Auges

    Aug 9, 2017
    Sometimes NCR Sarge from Mojave Outpost in Cold, Cold Heart.
    Also NCR officer in Boulder City and Kowalski at the memorial there.
     
  4. FalloutIsMyDrug

    FalloutIsMyDrug Former Fo3 Lover(converted)

    Sep 29, 2016
    I think some of the NPCs involved in the "Legend of the Star" quest are like this. After Tomas and Jacklyn fight(the guy and the purple-haired girl with star caps), the surviving one usually runs off into the distance. This event usually happens to me right outside of Nipton at the same place you meet the lottery winner. You can follow the surviving NPC until they run into radscorpions or giant ants if you don't want to straight up murder for those star caps. I don't remember if Malcolm(the guy who approaches you about the caps) does this or not.
     
  5. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Barton Thorn sort of fits into this, given that he basically forces you to murder him as soon as you find the 'treasure'. There's the Strip gate runner whose only purpose is to die. All of the Happy Trails wankers I guess.
     
  6. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere First time out of the vault

    Oct 28, 2017
    Mr. House of all people is the greatest of examples of this trope in the Fallout universe if the Courier goes against him later on.

    Not only did Mr. House have Victor save your life after being shot and buried in the grave, but 200 years earlier he practically saved New Vegas which is the only reason it's remained habitable enough and with the Dam intact which is why any current faction is even fighting over the territory at all, and all the main factions (NCR, Legion, Yes Man) of which needs him out of the picture after "serving his purpose".
     
  7. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    This Benny quote pretty much sums up why I don't think that's a valid argument for not killing House
    "Mr. House hides Vegas under his skirt when the bombs fall a thousand years ago, so it belongs to him? Forever? You buy that?"

    House may have done good things in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's good for the Mojave now.
     
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  8. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Well, he's certainly good for the Mojave now, looking at the arguably better ending slides. Or would you prefer handing the whole region to the NCR, rife with corruption? Or the Legion which would fell apart as soon as Caesar dies? Or going Independent with all the uncertainties and no direction from someone like House?
     
  9. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    A lot of the NCR troopers near the fiends that tell the player to be careful then go and run directly towards the fiends to be killed.

    Jacobs town mercs after being told to walk away will sometimes be attacked by cazadores and killed.

    Do the rocket ghouls count near Novak, granted they technically off themselves because cult logic but does that count in this case?

    The powder gangers in the small house near Vegas always get destroyed by Deathclaws when I go there, not exactly a quest giving scenario, but a seriously dumb place to set up camp.
     
  10. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    That's why I specified "Not Necessarily".

    I agree that he's the best thing for the wasteland, but not because he saved it, because he genuinely has a good vision for it.
     
  11. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    If you think about it, Mr. House is kind of a Mary Sue for the Fallout universe. He's undying in his machine and is actually making lasting progress towards a better future in a universe known for constant strife.
     
  12. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I never did quite like his vision of a better future since it is more in line with simply bringing back the past to make the present live through the former's glory again. It is nice to live in such a place but it does seem like it will stagnate as time goes on and everyone would have to live in the equivalent of an unchanging snow-globe (though I will admit that Mr House at least thought of space colonization so he's not completely stuck with bringing the past back).

    Cass in her ending slide puts it best, "We were going full speed ahead... but facing backwards the whole time."
     
  13. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I don't think House's ending has the best slides. The NCR does but I'm not saying they're logically the best option. There are some bugs and weird writing differences apparent in the endings that muddy the waters a bit for me. I'd say Independent has the second best ones. From a narrative perspective it makes sense that it's a blank slate, but it would have been nice if the Courier had more of a say in things. The decisions you can make and the reputations you can earn should make a difference, but whatever. Apparently figuring out a better way to do everything doesn't get better results in the end, for some 'reason'.

    E.g
    "The Courier, with the aid of Yes Man, drove both the Legion and the NCR from Hoover Dam, securing New Vegas' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."
    vs
    "Mr. House's Securitron army took control of Hoover Dam and The Strip, pushing both the Legion and the exhausted NCR out of New Vegas. Mr. House continued to run New Vegas his way, a despotic vision of pre-War glory. The streets were orderly, efficient, cold. New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye."

    Despotic is bad. Orderly, efficient, cold isn't exactly a glowing endorsement. And we can safely assume that there is also chaos in the streets in House's ending, since killing and replacing him has no apparent affect on anything previously/you use the exact same resources to do the exact same thing so why would it be different.
     
  14. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    NCR might have the best ending slides, but when you really think about it, people like Kimball, Oliver, and Moore are getting what they want and they became even more popular, while genuinely good people like Hanlon have to retire and end their contribution to the society. Both Kimball and Oliver combined were incompetent hacks because under their reigns the Mojave Campaign were dragged far too long to the point where many of NCR's personnel are tired and Hanlon has to play the role he played to force the NCR to stop and reconsider their plans, while Moore is a bloodthirsty warmonger who always preferred violent solution to all problems, and she will push for removal of Ambassador Crocker should the Courier followed his plans instead of her's.

    And while Mr. House's ending slides might not be the best, if you do things right he would left every other guy and their dogs outside of the Strip alone. This is the best outcome to happen for the Mojave Wasteland, in my opinion, because they're not imposed by heavy taxes when under NCR's rule, AND they also progress under House's visionary leadership. And without House, who's to say an Independent Vegas could last against the NCR in the future? House makes really big difference when he's in the picture of an Independent Vegas. It was he who's truly feared by the NCR, even though they might get scared of the Securitrons at the Dam. Yet, who's to say the NCR wouldn't want to try again?

    Despotic only happens in the streets of New Vegas, especially the Strip. Like I said above, if you do things right, Mr. House would mostly leave the rest of the Mojave Wasteland alone. If you push the Kings to attack the NCR, House would leave Freeside alone, and if you DON'T let the NCR annex Primm, House will NOT impose heavy taxes on them.

    And there's always chaos in the streets no matter whose ending we get. Chaos isn't exclusive to one faction, because it's a damn post-apocalyptic world.
     
  15. Ediros

    Ediros A Smooth-Skin

    Feb 4, 2016
    Agreed with NCR, disagree with House being best option. I still think independent ending is the best. However, when you get Yes man and put him in control, he has exact same resources as House and no, he won't take over the world, which J. E. Sawyer had to clarify.

    In fact, the difference between House and Yes man is very marginal if you play as a courier who doesn't care about Mojave. However, a benevolent courier is one of the most optimal choices in Fallout world.

    Spaceships, leaving earth, it all sounds grand but I can't for the life of me, see it happening not even in 100 years. Unless you use all the resources from the dlcs. However here is the kicker, if the dlcs can be used whoever gets them becomes a major power in the world. Holograms, sierra madre vending machines, big mountain, etc.

    But I disgress, to me House's main problem is that he wants to leave earth in 100 years and I call bullshit on that one. Let's say everything works out for him, the NCR still come to spend money, but they are licking wounds and will try to get Hoover dam. However, even with securitrons he can not hope to stop a power house like NCR. And how can he focus on building space ships when there is a major power breathing down his neck. Not to mention, how can he get good researchers and scientists when he straight out ignores followers of the apocalypse and they get overwhelmed with influx of new patients. Sure in independent run it's the same, but House rule is all about earning money to fuel that dream of his.

    To me, the best solution to stop NCR and Legion and make Mojave prosper is to blow up both trade routes with Nukes, thus stopping their conquest and making them focus on something else. Then actually you can rebuild the Mojave and not worry about any major threats. That is why I go for independent.
     
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  16. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Seriously, all of these discussion about whether or not Mr. House is the best option for the wasteland has been discussed and argued again and again on this thread http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/...t-hope-for-the-wasteland-and-humanity.205464/

    But hey, I'll bite anyway.

    Even if Yes Man has the same resource as House, he wouldn't have the same visions and wits that House had when it comes to leading humanity into better future AND prevent the NCR from trying to annex the Mojave again. Again, who's to say the NCR wouldn't want to try again? House. House would say the NCR wouldn't try again, because it was House who truly put the NCR back in their place. Get rid of House from the picture, and an Independent Vegas means nothing for the NCR in the future.

    And we know damn well that the DLCs are used by the Courier, who else managed to get through all the hazards and deathtraps Sierra Madre and the Big MT have but the Courier? Without the Courier, Elijah will be stuck with Sierra Madre Casino unopened, and without the Courier the Think Tank would do whatever they're doing for the next 200 years or so.

    Have you ever tried a House-run before? House himself explained why the NCR wouldn't try again. Here's the dialogue texts when you asked him the questions:
    All of these calculations were made by Mr. House himself. I guess you can say Yes Man did the calculations too, but can Yes Man came up with a plan in case the NCR actually attempt to try again? And again, NCR feared Mr. House much more that they would have him eliminated just like when you support any other factions.

    Back when the NCR first discovered the ruins of Las Vegas and Hoover Dam, at their full power they CAN just wipe out Mr. House's handful of securitrons and the rehabilitated tribals of Three Families, but they decided to sign a treaty with Mr. House because bloodshed would take so many lives, and the Legion baring its hoofs and horns in the east. The NCR beat the Legion back then, but unable to finish the job. The Legion then recovered, and 7 years later the NCR are unable to fully annex New Vegas, they stretch their forces thin and have their morale and resourced drained, while Mr. House grew in power. Combine that with the Platinum Chip, significantly increasing the number of Securitrons AND upgrading their arsenal, while the NCR are not at their full power anymore.... see where I'm going, here?

    Not to mention with Mr. House's scheming to have Kimball and Oliver taking the blame, AND the body of NCR's whole nation rife with corruption, AND with someone like Hanlon disapproving the entire campaign.... well.

    Again, no major power are breathing down his neck. Good researchers and scientists came from the NCR who move to Mojave Wasteland since he's only expelled NCR's military presence and personnel (see: Order of Withdrawal), and House would definitely distrust the Followers after they tried to bug his Lucky 38's system.

    That's fucking stupid, because how the fuck can you rebuild the Mojave if you cut its throat like that? From where else would the inhabitants gain resources to rebuild the Mojave if there's no one to trade with? The Mojave might be self-sufficient with all the good soil for farming, clean water and electricity, but what about other resources to build infrastructure and maintain it? Rebuilding would definitely become much faster with all the resources flowing from trading with the NCR, AND you would need House so that the NCR wouldn't breath down the neck of the Mojave with demands of annexation.
     
  17. Ediros

    Ediros A Smooth-Skin

    Feb 4, 2016
    You know what, let's stop it here, before it gets out of hand. Or just take it to the other thread. That way, we can keep this thread from being derailled and vatted.

    Also, is anyone anyoned how you can tell anyone in Novac to go in front of the Dino in the middle of the night, without a speech check.
     
  18. Alphons

    Alphons Prophet der Auges

    Aug 9, 2017
    Maybe it was designed that way. When you wake up someone in the middle of the night, he's still sleepy and you can easily persuade them into doing something.
     
  19. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    All of the happy trails cunts. I wonder if these were originally meant to be fully fleshed out characters but theyes couldn't be because of the DLC dialogue Cap Bethesda imposed.