Is fallout 2 the black sheep of fallout?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by SiriusShenanigans, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    I ask this question a lot because I find myself differing from a lot of people and while I consider myself a fallout fan, I think fallout 2 is the biggest interest for me and as we keep going on I notice the differences between even one and two.

    Fallout 2 had a different tone that only really gets emulated by old world blues, when Ch is one dlc in the whole franchise. It's got comedy and uses it to create a fun world but it's definitely not a dying world. Does that make it the odd one out?
     
  2. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    Actually, I've considered FO1 to be the outlier. It was much more somber than successive Fallout games, perhaps due to the lack of civilization.

    FO2 seemed to be the pioneer of Fallout's campy dark humor that is found even in Bethesda's games, ham-handed though it may be. And I believe that F:NV takes after FO2 tonally.
     
  3. MPPlantOfficial

    MPPlantOfficial Still Mildly Glowing

    Aug 24, 2017
    Nope. Tactics is.
     
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  4. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    I feel like none of the other games capture fallout 2's humor at all though. They might put some teddy bears reading a newspaper on toilet but fallout 2 never did shit like that. It would have strange and bizarre circumstances, but it would go balls to wall on explaining those things and make work them into serious things. I don't think of fallout 2 as campy so much as flippant, like the world doesn't care about how dark it is. It always strikes me as weird that fallout 2 gets called things like campy when its still the darkest fallout game in the franchise.

    I actually think of Fallout 3 and 4 and even New Vegas for the most part as being more Somber in tone over all. New Vegas even requires you to take a special trait to turn the weird on, and it doesn't even do that much. I guess New Vegas is in recovery, so it has some more of the life of 2, but New vegas is also more of a gritty story in how its struggles are petty and over the scarcity of electric power. The legion and NCR, everything but the tv's on wheels with rocket launchers are pretty gritty. I think its just hard to keep tone when you have like... the fallout 3 engine.

    I guess the real question needs to be "Which fallout game is the most fallout-y and which one is the least, not including bos and tactics, we don't talk about them"
     
  5. Ayelander

    Ayelander Big Man

    Jun 30, 2018
    Are we counting Shelter and 76?
     
  6. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    Fallout shelter isn't a fallout, and 76 is a spin off.
     
  7. Pwener

    Pwener Tunnelers? They Don't Sound That Tough...

    Aug 15, 2017
    Speak for yourselfs, I for one enjoy Shelter as my character's connection between F3 and NV.
     
  8. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    I consider all of the follow-up titles as spin-offs—except for Fallout 2... which was simply designed by new talent with a poor grasp of the setting. The mechanics (and UI fixes) in Fallout 2 were badly needed in Fallout...but the rest was not; especially not Melchor.

    IMO Fallout 2 is the only sequel in the series worth mention, but it's not as good as the original—though it's close, and larger, which tilts the scales a bit in its favor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
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  9. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Tactics gets way too much hate. Feels bad man. Granted it wasn't a RPG, but it was still like the originals.
     
  10. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Tactics greatly improved the turn based combat mechanics—but at the loss of the RPG... It was only ever intended as a spin-off... At least they were honest about it. Creating a great spin-off when that's what one sets out to do, is not a bad thing.

    *IIRC they did get flak immediately, because it was not a Fallout 3.
     
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  11. Pwener

    Pwener Tunnelers? They Don't Sound That Tough...

    Aug 15, 2017
    Being a black sheep doesn't mean it's bad. A black sheep by definition doesn't fit with the group and is judged with more scrutiny because of it.
     
  12. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    My problem is people like Tactics less than Fallout 3.
     
  13. Pwener

    Pwener Tunnelers? They Don't Sound That Tough...

    Aug 15, 2017
    I've personally never played it. I dislike the main plot, the aesthetic and I can't connect my headcanon to it. It also seems... off. The bad guys being an AI and his robot army kind of goes against what Fallout stands for.
     
  14. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I think that whole argument is shit personally.


    The Brotherhood of Steel originating from a military vault, a mistake since they were an organization formed by Mariposa Military Base personnel and their families.

    Fallout Tactics has an abundance of modern weapons from the real-world, diverging a little with the retro-futuristic concept.

    The new species of deathclaws, the hairy deathclaws, are portrayed as intelligent and capable of speech. They bear little resemblance to the deathclaws seen in previous games, and appear to be unrelated to the intelligent deathclaws created by the Enclave in Fallout 2.

    Due to limitations of the game engine, "normal" ghouls suffer from radiation poisoning.


    Those things are what is actually wrong.
     
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  15. Pwener

    Pwener Tunnelers? They Don't Sound That Tough...

    Aug 15, 2017
    Didn't I just say I've never played the damn game? I know more about Van Buren and BoS than I do about Tactics. Also, it is not a "shit" argument because it's barely a sentence. Also, it's not wrong. Fallout isn't Terminator and from what little I've seen of Tactics it's very obvious it's trying to be the aforementioned failing franchise.

    I mean, just switch "Calculator" with "Skynet" and it becomes Terminator with a light Fallout paintjob.

    Yeah, Tactics is trash.
     
  16. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    True; but the post was about FO:Tactics, and the perception of it getting undue hate.
     
  17. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    "Fallout isn't Terminator"
    I'm not sure fallout 4 got the memo.
     
  18. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I said the argument was pointless. Not you. Many people have made it.

    Not to mention we had Skynet in Fallout 2.

    Especially now that Fallout 4 is out. Hairy Deathclaws aren't even bad. So we are left with a flub on the BoS base and some real life weapons that should not really be there.
     
  19. FDO

    FDO First time out of the vault

    Jul 4, 2018
    I woudn't call Fallout 2 a black sheep, if anything it tried too much to not be a blacksheep, to please what was the most likely large audience at the time. My vision is that Fallout 1 is the black sheep, because it's the best and the only one that really had Tim Cain.
    I am not saying the 2 is bad, it's a good game for most and even has some great. I sometimes wonder what it would have been if it's development had been similar to the original. Meaning left alone, not bringing so many new people in, not rushed, and not forced to be 'bigger' in worldmap and so forth.

    Vegas, some bad gameplay stuffs left aside, actually did very good at recreating the better sides of Fallout 2, the serious lore and tones that is, and expand with it, make it evolve, so it definitly show that the 2 is good. But hearing that NV was made by the people who made Fallout, well it's not really true so it itch sometimes.

    However the 2 tend to be credited for things that already exist in Fallout 1, like the restart of civilisation, and the people trying to figure how to move on. It's just less obvious and not the central theme most of the time, except with the followers of the apocalypse, and the unity actually. But it is already there, and other locations show it, like Shady Sands, Junkyard, the Hub, even the Brotherhood in their own way.
    Still I used to not mind the worst sides of Fallout 2, until it appeared later that they are the most standing out elements in the mind of people like bethesda, and what made the game so known.
    The vault tech experiment grew all over the place when it was just a vague idea in Cain's mind to begin with, and who know if he would have keep it? So many damn vaults and their supposed 'useful' experiments in New Vegas for example, on a area that is not supposed to be so large and it look like I didn't even run into them all. And let's not (or I) go into the 'Yeah, america fucking US, baby' phenomenon that bethesda seem to love.
     
  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Regarding the Calculator and that it doesn't mesh well with the themes of Fallout 1 and 2 in which human nature is the cause for past and current problems is not completely true as the Calculator is the result of human hubris.
    It wasn't even suppose to be a true artificial intelligence when it was made up first for Tactics, rather a sort of analytical engine that was going down a check list of what tasks to carry out next. Even the final version is rather questionable if it is a true AI as it requires organic brains to give it functionality and focus.

    So I think it is rather in tune with the theme in Fallout regarding human nature, the Calculator being the result of human genius that has come back to cause problems because it was partly designed to well and partly suffering from short comings because the designers were incapable of planning for any unforeseen developments and the budget cuts by the investors who rather spend it on useless trivial matters such as underground hunting ranges.
     
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