It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, yeah. Political debate ... well. You have been warned.

    You know, before someone gets the wrong picture. I dislike the Islam. It's not a religion that I would follow. But I am not very fond of religion in general. I don't make a difference between Islam, Christianity, Judaism or what ever.

    But the thing is, with the recent events at Nica in France where god knows how many people have been killed, something that I fear will become a trend again ... Muslim bashing. And I am sick and tired of it, where we see highly complex topics like religion, terrorism, immigration and culture simplified to a point where of course, everything is solved by one simple solution. Fight Islam. Yaay! That will solve everything! I mean it sure helped France a lot in the last few years, banning the burqa/chador, bombing ISIS/Syrah, more surveillance and more laws. There are even open discussions if mosques should be closed.

    Now here is the thing. When they are all so fucking dangerous and when it is always about US (the west) vs. THEM (aka da Muslim!), how comes that Germany is so peaceful? While France has seen quite a lot of violence in the recent years. It seems like they suffer attacks after attacks. But I can't remember the last time a Muslim has killed 70 people in Germany.

    What the fuck is happening? Is Germany the only state with some decency left? The more laws and regulations European nations get out because of Islamic terrorists, the more ground do they gain. We are loosing. But not the way how some think. We are changing our laws and in some cases they even think about banning mosques and all it does is spreading fear.

  2. Erich van Loon

    Erich van Loon Polish Winged Hussar

    May 23, 2016
    About the terror in France...It's not the Levanites, it's the Algerians. I hate to be racist toward them, but they're the ones stirring trouble, I mean after all, France did mistreat their [The Algerians'] Ancestors, or so I've heard.

    While the Massacre in Nice should be Neece was a terrible thing, Surveillance won't help. Having Surveillance would only cause mass unrest. It is also said in the video that mass surveillance has not stopped terror attacks.

    Getting back to France. From what I'm gonna take, it's that the civil unrest from the Muslims already present in France, has been mistaken for the Levanites migrating from their homes in search of a better place. Because of this, the governments have been a bit more xenophobic and this Islamphobia thing is becoming a problem.

    I've heard people jump to the conclusion that the Terrorists are concealing themselves with the masses of people trying to leave the Middle East. Hell, #StopIslam is a thing.
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  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, all of this radicalisation is really playing into the hands of extremists. And at the same time people willingly give up their rights because of fear. It's a shame really.
  4. The Lonesome Drifter

    The Lonesome Drifter First time out of the vault

    Jul 16, 2016
    Islam is just a shitty barbaric religion that has no place in Europe. Im not against muslims, only their violent and oppressive ideology. but honestly if you call yourself a Muslim and know of what Your Religion stands for, Your a pretty shitty person too.
  5. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    Ah yes, 80+ French men, women and children lie dead in the streets with more wounded but let's make sure the moslems aren't getting their feelings hurt.
    Also I wouldn't site Germany as an example of a country that is prospering due to it's insane bringing in of moslem migrants just because there are more rapes and less murder.

    What's also interesting is that France, the country that for the longest time has had the largest moslem population in these western European countries is the one with all these problems with Islamic terrorism.... hmmm.... must be a coincidence.

    Also since you seem to have forgotten.
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  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    And what do you guys suggest should we do about all this? It seems the increased surveilance and tightening of laws and bombing of muslim villages hasn't done really much to prevent any of that ...

    Also all those statistics are nice and dandy ... but are there comparable statistics about other religions? How favourable are moderate christians in the US about the Westboro Baptist Church in the US? Also, as we all know, there was never ever a time in both Europe and the US, where people sung to a different tune I guess ... naw.

    How many people have been in favour of the KKK? How many in the US today would support a government based on the Bible?

    Do people forget so easily where Christianty actually has its roots from? ... Oh Odin! We should send all those Christians back in to the seas and the middle east, where they come from and give Europe back to the true European religion!
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  7. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    Close the fucking border. Stop taking them in. It's not difficult.
    The one's who commit crimes are deported. They either assimilate, follow Europe's laws or get the fuck out.
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  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Like with Mexico? Or Israel? Which doesn't prevent the really dangerous people from still crossing it - Israels security wall has provided little security ... Also, what should we do when suddenly 500 000 people show up on said borders demanding entry? Like the refugees did? And if they simply get over the fences.
    It also still doesn't answer what we should do with Muslims and Islam. If you say that it is such a dangerous and violent religion and that it doesnt belong to Europe. What should we do about it? I want to hear some real solutions from you guys.
  9. The Lonesome Drifter

    The Lonesome Drifter First time out of the vault

    Jul 16, 2016
    Nice strawman idiot - dont put words in my mouth, why do you assume i'm some sort of pagan who wanna kick out all non-european religions? I wanna take back my statement. Actually, Islam doesn't belong anywhere on earth. Its absolute cancer. The worst thing to happen to the middle east is Islam and im sad for all the women and gays who are born into such a toxic place.
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  10. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    No, because we don't have effective border control. Why do you think I'm supporting a candidate who wants to build a wall and increase the enforcement of America's southern border?
    This is just flat out wrong. And I suggest your look at your source a bit more. It's a fiercely pro-Palestinian.
    Anyway the Israeli wall (and all of these other walls) have been more than effective.–Egypt_barrier#cite_note-15
    And before you complain abour "hurr durr wikipedia" they all have their sources.
    You refuse to let them in. You show me a guy climbing over the birder and I'll show you an armed guardsman standing on the other side of the wall waiting to arrest the person using it.
    I already told you. Stop letting in hordes of them with little to no background check and when they commit crimes in the country you deport them. We don't need to scrub the continent clean of every moslem, we just need to stop bringing in more when we clearly already have too many and if they're violent criminals and support massive terror attacks we make them leave.
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  11. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    No, no you got me wrong. I just thought your statement sounds exactly like something that a Saxon could have said some 1100 years ago.
    Christianty is just a shitty barbaric religion that has no place in Europe. - Random druid/follower of nordic religion.

    But .. that is what Germany is already doing. And we're doing pretty fine. Sure, there are sometimes issues. But if the people are caught, they get in to jail or send back - if possible.

    I just don't see why you have such issues when we already DO have effective measures in place to deal with it correctly. Again, Germany hasn't seen ANY kind of attack of the scope like France or Belgium. Many of the muslims we have are peacefull people. So we must do something right. But, we also try to fight xenophobia, we're not bombing some villages nor does Germany get to much into foreign politics.

    And before someone comes up with strange statistics again about rape or crimes. Yeah, if you let people in, crime statistics rise ... what a surprise! If we suddenly had 2 million more Germans, we would ... see ... a growth in crimes! By the way, not all crimes have the same weight. Particularly refugees have to deal with a lot of restrictions here, like how they are not allowed to leave a certain area for their own safety. If they are caught doing it, it gets reported as a minor crime to the crime statistics.

    With 500 000 people? I want you see doing that effectivelly ... and if the people always come back? What should we do then?
    By the way, our constitution has a very important law that grants EVERY refugee the right for asylum. This law found it's way into it because of WW2, when Europe has seen a mass of refugees. So we can't just close our borders just like that and say, fuck them!
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  12. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    not this thing-thread again...

    at least bashing bethesda is lot more fun
  13. Erich van Loon

    Erich van Loon Polish Winged Hussar

    May 23, 2016
    I agree. I hate politics.
  14. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Oy vey.
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  15. Erich van Loon

    Erich van Loon Polish Winged Hussar

    May 23, 2016
    Oy vey, the goyim are schmucks. /s

    Germany is also pretty pro-semite/israel, from what I've heard, and hate homophobia so yeah, the only state with some decency left.
  16. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    Yea, all those rapes of German women and children are so worth it for "multiculturalism". Plus, they're free to simply walk right back in.
    Not to mention the countless others in other European countries.
    Yea! Just because no one has set a bomb off yet means things are great. It's only mass rape attacks, sexual assault and beatings of native Germans!
    Theres a difference between "fighting xenophobia" and lettings your people be raped because you might be called racist.
    Oh look, another fucking STAND UP COMEDIAN! I'm seriously starting to believe you get all your beliefs from dudes telling jokes on a stage.
    These aren't "strange statistics". They're the factual statistics showing how many people are being fucked and beaten by migrants. You can't just dismiss it all as "strange stats" because it doesn't fit your narrative.
    This is pure and baseless conjecture. The fact that all these European countries with rape and sexual assault problems are also the ones with the most moslems disproves your little "theory".
    Irrelevant, the stats and articles I show are all relating to violent and sexual crimes.
    Many countries throughout history have been able to do the same. Both recently and many years in the past. When you have a strong border with armed guards it's not hard to make people go away.
    Deny them access. Even if you have to do it a million times it's a lot better than just giving up letting them into the country.
    Constitutions can always be adjusted. Japan is about to change theirs to get their military back for example.
    America has legal gay marriage enforced in every state, laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation and gives billions in foreign aid to Israel. So saying that Germany is the only decent state left because of these factors is retarded.

    EDIT: Also I'd really appreciate it if you didn't radically alter your post after the fact. Your post with the KKK and all that nonsense looks like it's been ignored by me when in reality none of that was posted when i responded to it.
    Also since you seem to claim that a large majority of Christians support the KKK and WBC the burden of proof is on you.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Now that you mention it, it seems that our so called ring wing party, like the AfD is showing more and more their true colours as they have serious problems to throw the anti-semites and Holocaust deniers out of their party. What surprise ... all those months of talking and shouting how Germany has a Christian/Jewish tradition and Muslims don't belong here ... but for some reason they become melting pot for anti-semites.

    So one incident is already proof that Germany is on the brink of collapse or something? This whole thing was a mess, no one dennies that. No one dennies that refugees and immigrants cause issues. However, outside of this incident, Gemany is a very peacefull nation and the MOST attacks right now, come from right wing extremists. NSU killings for example. You can see rape as something very bad, which it is, but I think killing people is still worse.

    Migrant attacks reveal dark side of Germany.

    Report: Five times more attacks on refugee homes in Germany in 2015

    Muslims, are the least of our problems. You can believe me that. Or well, you probably won't.

    Also sexual assault, while still a crime is not the same as rape. As far as I know there was a low number of rapes in cologne. What is an sexual assault? It can be anything from touching a females ass to intimitation. Again, I am not saying that it shouldn't be punished. But seriously, rape and sexual harrasment are still two different cases, just as how beating and murdering someone are two different things. Both are bad things, but one is clearly worse. Groping a females ass is despicable, but it's still not rape.

    All of this has been also heavily exploited by our right wing populists. For obvious reasons. I guess there is nothing wrong in exploting the victims for votes hmm? Of course the good German female is in danger and only the white German male can protect her!
    The statistisc as a whole on sexual assault in Germany, tell us a different story though, despite of the horroible event in Cologne.

    Refugees responsible for tiny proportion of sex crimes in Germany despite far-right claims following Cologne attacks

    Yeah ... the last time Germany saw some serious terrorism from Muslims was in 1970 during the Olympics in Munich. And that only happend because the terrorists wanted to attack Jewish players. Go figure. Where do you see those mass attacks and beatings of Germans? Outside of that one incident in Collogne? And still no bombings. The fact that it hasn't happend yet could be luck. Or it means Germany is doing something right here.

    Dude, there is no mass raping of German females by refugees going on in Germany. Most of the sexual assaults are still comitted by Germans. Those statistics come from the police. Those are official numbers. Even with Cologne. We are talking about aprox 500 rapes compared to 40+ million woman. Where is this mass raping - outside of that single incident in Cologne - happing in Germany? Which was also for the most part not done by refugees.

    The vast majority of suspects in that case (Cologne) come from Algeria and Morocco and police statistics indicate that North African migrants are more likely to commit crimes than those from Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan, where the majority of refugees arriving in Germany originate.

    A summary of the Bundeskriminalamt’s report released to the Independent showed that 82 per cent of offences by immigrants were non-violent, mostly theft, counterfeiting and travelling on public transport without a ticket.

    How? There are many terrorists and fundamentalists who directly refer to actions by nations like France, Britain and the US as reason for their attacks. I am not justifinyg their actions. But is it so unlikely that someone who lost his family as colateral damage, by a bombing raid might join a fundamentalist group? Or that some groups use western anti-muslim rhetoric to fuel their propaganda? Right. There is no conection.

    These aren't "strange statistics". They're the factual statistics showing how many people are being fucked and beaten by migrants. You can't just dismiss it all as "strange stats" because it doesn't fit your narrative.
    Yes they are, because they are scewed to show ALL kinds of refugees in a bad light. Even though the perpetrators on Collogne havn't been for the most part refugees from Syriah or the middle east. But they are all the same flock, right? That's why I would rather trust in official numbers by the Geman government, who actually has access to the reports. But oh ... I forgot ... the government must be lying. And some journalist who's painting all muslims or refugees as the attackers, has some very reliable and trustworthy source, without any agenda behind it. From where do they get their numbers by the way?

    Not according to the official summary of the Bundeskriminalamt’s report. Germany is one of the safest nations in Europe, at least if you're a German or European citizen.

    So raping someone and using the Bus without a fucking ticket have the same weight for you? Fucking Christ man ... in what society do you live? Do you chop of hands for stealing as well?

    Yeah, the Romans have been so effective in dealing with it ... or all the othe cultures. The truth is, if you don't use force, there is noting you can do. What are those guards supposed to do when 500 000 unarmed people, families for the most part, are trying to cross the border? What should those guards do in your opinion?

    But HOW? HOW are you supposed to denny them access? All I hear is guards, guards, guards with some arms. Do you know that the EU is patroling the sea with armed ships? And people STILL risk their lifes on shitty, broken and overcroaded boats. Thousands of people arrive in Europe each day. So apparantly, guards alone ... don't do shit. Again, you still havn't said what those guards are suppsed to do.

    Yeah. Right. But maybe we Germans simply learned our lesson from our history ...
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  18. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Gun them down with rubber bullets and hose them down with tear gas. :)

    It's about the proportional crime-rate. An island has 1000 people, 10 commit crimes, they let in 100 people and the crime rate is now 11 then that is fine, but what if the number of people committing crimes is now 25? That's quite a significant jump.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  19. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I shouldn't even touch this thread, but I want to say - untill now "integration" has been a pretty word, and nothing else.

    It's one of the very few things I agree with conservatives, is that it has been almost a taboo subject, and therefore remained untouched: Nobody's really getting integrated. When we keep saying "we must integrate better" it is always a future-tense to it, meaning we aren't doing it, and "should" but not necesarily even plan to. This is disastrous in the long run, and contributes directly in to forming ghettos - and in ghettos happen ghetto shit.

    Integration cannot remain a concept in future tense. Human beings want to live and work, so in theory a country like Norway could welcome a fucking million immigrants, they would - in theory - add a million times of workforce, a million times of tax payment, a million times of contribution
    IF, IF, IF... they were integrated.

    But for now, we "should" "start" integrating "soon", and in the meantime immigrants are left out of native society, strangers in a cold-ass shithole, increasingly hated by everyone, and inevitably behaving increasingly ghettoishly, in the process giving all the bigots more and more fuel, and the voters more and more bigoted reasons to vote bigotry

    All this could be avoided, if only "integration" was a reality, an active on-going reality, and not just a pretty promise...

    I also wish someone would tell oportunity-seeking Africans the truth about Europe. I have nothing against Africans, in fact, that's part of why I'd wanna tell them - to warn them! Have you heard how they describe Europe?
    These are often not actually refugees, contrary to what we tend to think, the entire continent is not swamped in war. A few countries has conflict, but most of them are seeking a better life. Like Mexicans :v
    But it is a business - in Africa - to take people to Europe. They pay through their teeth, because they are told Europe is Heaven on Earth, and only 1% of them have Wikipedia to double-check on. They are litterally under the belief that Europe is fantastic and sits there and just waits for them.
    I talked to an African youngster in Spain, who told me directly: He was shocked to see Spain had poor suburbs. He had NO idea Europe had poverty whatsoever, because he had been told poverty did simply not exist in Europe. He had been fed propaganda and lies, in order to tempt him to pay up, and go to the Promised Land. Now, in Spain, he was left to face reality: Resentment from the entire community, plus some shitty menial job and a shitty little flat in the poor side of town.
    IF ONLY people told them "Look, not that we don't welcome you or anything, but... if you absolutely have to go abroad to find better oportunities, you might just well be better off moving to whatever country is next to yours. Burundi is it? Maybe there's jobs in Burundi."
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  20. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    Dec 15, 2015
    Germany is experiencing less terrorist attacks than say, France, because Turks are less keen on terrorism than Arabs.
    Refugees are twice as likely to rape a woman, but that's okay because they're way more likely than that to commit some other crime?

    This one isn't really hard to figure out, y'know.
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