It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    Okay, translation seems to be pretty correct. Also, I concur, this old lady clearly talks about many thing she obviously don't understand, such as syphilis transmission. (I do believe that there should have been HIV mentioned along with it.)
    Anyway:

    You don't have small hospitals without labs and advanced diagnostic centres, and bigger clinics with larger capacities, often interconnect with universities, providing full blown services? That's how it works here in Slovakia and also in Czech, so I do believe this part was lost/messed up in translation. I see this one as a lexical problem, not informational.

    According to the Czech redactor, she's retired anesthesiologist. Also, she's complaining about irresponsible behavior of these people, not about them bringing diseases.

    Really? I thought nobody can treat MERS coronavirus for instance and unless I'm completely wrong, there was one cause reported from Germany when old German tourist infected in Saudi Arabia (or where) died in German hospital due to this.
     
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I see. You didn't understood what I was aiming at ...

    I have no fucking clue why your people come here or even if they do, some sure come to Germany which is alright. I don't have a problem with it. But that isn't point. The point is that the moment Islam, Immigrants and Refugees are not a big thing in Germany anymore, it will be back to bashing the East European Untermenschen with racist arguments. The Slovakians, Poles, Ukrainians and Russians stealing our jobs and sending their criminals to the EU. And all that populist bullshit that was thrown around during the early 1990s or when Slovakia and Poland joined the EU.

    And? It turns out most of it was just anecdotal, if even anything of the stereotype-bulllshit our right wing idiots have thrown around was even close to the truth. My point is, that you can generalize EVERY group and EVERY nationality and reduce EVERY Culture ONLY to the negative points they have. But that's not how people or a constitutional democracy work. Not here in Germany at least. Yes, there are refugees that, steal, puke at the police, throwing around insults, that commit crimes maybe even rapists. Some of them, are shitty people. No one ever denied that! But, I am not ready to treat and blame thousands if not MILLIONS(!) of people based on the actions of a few. For the same reason as why I will NEVER EVER treat ALL Slovakians like shit, because of what our idiot racists think and say about East Europeans. And I am pretty sure not everything in Slovakian culture is about super duper awesomeness.


    Banska Bystrica Governor Kotleba's LSNS party protesting against gays in 2011 (c) The Daily.SK
    No Freedom Till We’re Equal, Slovakia’s Referendum | The Daily Slovakia http://www.thedaily.sk/no-freedom-till-were-equal-slovakias-referendum/#ixzz4FcXYQhKC

    I guess we can see here Slovakian tradition in action.

    Where? Where have I said that we should get rid of ALL borders and ANY kind of border control? But you do realize how fucking large the EU is, right? You're willing of giving up Mare Nostrum ... which SAVED LIVES, but you propose a strong border around a fucking continent? It's kinda strange, so many are screaming for more controll, more borders, fences, guards ... and how it would be a viable solution. But when it comes to actually implementing it. No one wants to pay for it, sending material or personal. Except. For Germany who is sending a few (useless) vehicles like broken helicopters. But look at Frontex and their demands which are never meet. Looks like the populists and right wing parties that rule in some nations can scream and scream at the EU, but when it comes to actually doing something, no one wants to spend even a dime. But Germany (and somewhat France) and Merkel are of course the asshole for taking care of refugees that Italy and Grece could simply not manage on their own anymore.

    By the way, where have your politicans been when Bush decided to Invade Iraq which left us with this mess in Syria? Or where have your politicans been when the UK made a billion dollar weapon deal with the same Arabian states who also also financed Daesh? Or is it only alright to be a part of the reason for refugees but not taking responsibility for it?

    You know, sometimes I like to imagine that Europe should send ALL of the Syran refugees streight to the UK with the message, you created this Mess with Bush, now deal with it. But that's neither fair (for the refugees) nor realistic. And would just cause a lot of mayhem. But it's nice to imagine it at least ...

    Germany has a very good network of doctors and medical offices, probably most of the issues people have are treated directly there. Even the more complex stuff. Where only surgeries and complicated treatements which requires more then just a day are performed in hospitals, you know cancer, complicated surgeries etc. As Buxie said, we usually don't make the distinction. Almost all large medical fascilities where people see some form of treatment are called hospitals. The terms Clinic and Hospital are used very often synonymous. The best difference, in Germany, might be that Clinics eventually do either a lot of research, are affiliated with some large University or have eventually a specialization in a certain area like treating cancer and rare diseases I mean there are like just a handfull of places in Germany where you can effectivelly treat tropical diseases. One thing that is often used with Clinics, is the Beauty clinic, or die Schönheitsklinik in German. Becuse no one with a brain tumor or a stab wound is send there for treatment. For obvious reasons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  3. Buxbaum666

    Buxbaum666 Heterostructured Nanorod oTO Orderite

    Dec 5, 2003
    She probably doesn't understand things because she's a fictional character used for anti-refugee propaganda, written by someone who doesn't understand things, either.

    We have hospitals of various sizes and specializations. I wouldn't know any way for the statement to make sense.

    Yes, one patient died of MERS in Germany, in 2013. No refugee has been hospitalized with that so far, probably because most cases happen in Saudi Arabia. I don't know of any exotic illnesses that are rampant in the countries most refugees are coming from. The same is true for HIV or Syphillis.

    Let's face the facts, there are no masses of muslims rampaging in German hospitals. It's a fabrication.
     
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  4. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    This is related to German representatives seeking for foreign employees. I kid you not! :-)
    This is blog from random Slovak radiology specialist working in Sachsen for some 4 years, he mentioned this recruitment too. Since I've seen printed leaflet provided to our students by German representatives with my very own eyes, the least what I can suggest to you is to e-mail this guy (address provided in blog) and ask him. Or ask any central/east European doctor you'll ran across in Germany about it. Or not, whatever, I don't really care and I certainly don't blame you for not trusting me blindly on the interwebz. Just trying to burst the informational bubble.
    http://valasek.blog.sme.sk/c/413493/zahranicni-lekari-v-nemecku.html
    Another interesting story:
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-seeks-foreign-cure-for-its-doctor-shortage-1437434991

    Oh I'm sure things settled down after we've signed the deal with Turkey and reduced the influx of immigrants to Germany by oh-so-racist measures taken by Austria or Hungary. It's only a matter of time until the shit will hit the fan again.

    Of course you don't have fucking clue and I'm pretty sure it's alright. Since there's more than 30.000 foreign physician working in Germany right now, disintegration of EU resulting in cancelled treaties about free movement of labour force would be serious kick in the balls for any huge Western country, since you can't replace tens of thousands specialists easily.

    This is our only far right wing party, formed recently, and supported by less than 200.000 wackos. Every other parties openly dissociate themselves from it, they have zero government support in the coalition and much lesser public support than German AfD. Anyway, you're still messing up politics with culture and traditions, I see. Suit yourself! (Just for the record, I vote many years for SaS, not LSNS.)

    Also, we're proudly marching towards prophecy from Fallout intro as it seems!
    the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarreling, bickering nation-states
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    That's 200 000 wackos that I could in theory use to describe the Slovakian people. But I don't. And you know why? because I don't generalize nations and people based on what I read on blogs, in news papers or some anecdotal experiences. I have meet to many different people and cultures in my youth. And thus I can not say much about the average Slovakian person, unless I actually had the pleasure to see and talk with some in real life. Just as how I don't know the average refugee, Syrian or Muslim. Or well, the average Muslim I do know, here in Germany beacuse I have grown up with many of them. But even then, I can not talk for ALL of the Muslims because they are like, billions of people.
     
  6. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    I don't generalize either, or did you see me calling any German to be raycist Hitlor supporter because there's AfD in Germany?
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    But you have no problem with taking examples of refugees who commit crimes to generalize 100 000 of people.
    Anyway, you still don't understand what my point is ... or you don't want to get in to it, because you would have to admit, that one has to differentiate. And that cultures, nations and people are a we bit more complex then just what we can read in news papers or on the net. I am sure that if we would be talking about Slovakia, some German right wing nutjob could find some case of a Slovakian doctor or nurse who killed old people in some German hospital to create a sense of fear and "See! That is the kind of peole we allow to work here!" mentality. But I think, the real problem here, and that I finally realize, is that you lack any kind of empathy. Only, to those things that you allow to enter your little bubble.
     
  8. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    Quote me about that 100000 blamed for crime committed by one, it's a straw man otherwise.
    Why should we strengthen our northern border, where nobody's crossing at all? There are just certain parts endangered by illegal migrants. Such as recently closed Balkanian route; Greek/Macedonian border, or Serbian/Hungarian one.

    Also, you are not aware of military and economical cooperation inside V4, are you? Aside from our battlegroup formed long ago, we've send humanitarian aid and officers to Greece when the situation was worst, and our officers are cooperating with Hungarians for quite a some time, i.e. there are members of Slovak police relocated to Hungary, protecting the eastern border of Schengen area according to treaties signed after joining the EU. You should really reconsider your blind leftist extremism and stop blaming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  9. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    Dec 15, 2015
    Yes.

    And your point was...?

    And Hassknecht would never dare to utter an actual argument. Some things are simply too much for "scientists".

    You do understand that there's more involved in the procedure of going to a hospital than actually moving about its premises...?
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008


    Then why do you demand such a strong border controll again?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  11. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Just wanted to know, or is that a crime now?
     
  12. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    What I fear the most right now is extremism breeding more extremism. It's a spiral; extremist Muslims target civilian populace, which is then driven into the loving arms of extremists (the far-right in many European nations), which push for more restrictions and controls on Muslims which fuels resentment and alienation, creating more extremists, so on and so forth.

    Because yes, the resentment and alienation fuels much of the terror we see in Europe. Of course, it's no excuse at all, but it's also no coincidence that most of those who perpetrate those acts served time in jail, and that so many ISIS supporters/combatants are disappointed or desperate young men. This isn't the terrorism of Al-Queda, where elaborate plans are carried out by radical ideologists with degrees from the finest Western universities. It's a group of guys with no future (real or perceived), who eat up the bullshit spewed online by said radical ideologists until they grab wahetevr killing implement they can find, and get to work. Simple plans, find a place where people are and kill them. Not as complex as the 9/11 attacks, much easier to carry out, almost as effective. The media is all over it, everyone is (obviously) shocked that it happens, and the likes of Le Pen sit there smugly telling us they got this shit all figured out and can wave the magic wand that will make all the problems go away.

    And it's what ISIS and similar groups want. That's their victory. They know that killing a few dozen civilians in a country of millions isn't going to help their war efforts. It's not even a drop in a bucket, if you look at those things coldly. But if they get tens of millions of people (using France as an example) to slowly but steadily turn on the few millions of Muslims there? Their recruiting pool is enlarged, their cause looks more righteous, their enemies are fragmented, the moderate Muslims are now less willing and able to keep their extremist counterparts in check. It's the kind of victory they seek more than anything else. They can't beat the military or economic might of the West, so they use more submersive methods. Tried and true since the earliest days of conflicts, sadly.

    All it takes is a few terrorists in the tens of thousands of immigrants/refugees/sons of the above that arrive in Europe.

    I'm not saying I know the solution. I doubt anybody does. This is a crisis that has its roots in higly complex geopolitics outside of the control of most European nations, yet they pay the price of all the power-mongering that happens in the Middle-East. And so long as the war in Syria and Irak continues and Erdogan is happily sending all the refugees he can into Europe, it's going to be solved I'm afraid. It's all a gigantic shit-show, and Europe is starting to feel th aftershocks of the virtual earthquake that has shaken the Middle East in modern times.
     
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  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Honestly, I doubt how fanatically Muslim the leaders of ISIS and various other terrorist groups are when they're swimming in sex slaves, money and power. I can't prove that they're not fanatics, but the rewards they reap seem to show that you don't need to believe as a motive.
     
  14. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Oh, absolutely. I believe militant Islamism is a means to an end for most of the head honchos of those movements. The end is, of course, power. For them, perhaps for their religion or their people (or what they consider their people), but in the end, power.

    It's what makes them attractive to some, too. Imagine you're some poor, Muslim-descended shmuck in a Parisian banlieue. You're viewed with suspicion by most, getting a job is factually harder than if you have a ''proper'' French name, most of the paths that you see available to you are in the lowest paying jobs or petty criminality.

    Enters a group that tells you that you can fight for a higher purpose and channel all that pent-up aggression, promising rewards in the afterlife alongside like-minded comrades that respect you, and that they will give you a gun, a woman (or women) and the right to do whatever the hell you please so long as it's done in the name of old Allah. That could be mighty persuasive to the right sort of people.

    Not that I'm condoning or excusing what these guys do, absolutely not. But there's a reason ISIS and its ilk took off, and it's not just because ''muh evul Moslems''.

    It's what fucks up the Middle East the most, it's a clash of power blocs. On one side, USA and its quasi client states (Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia). On the other, Russia and/or Iran and their growing influence. On the sidelines, ISIS and similar groups. And in the middle, the people who get killed, since of course innocents always suffer the most in war. So many get out of Dodge, towards the place they think will provide a safe haven. But reality is more complicated than that, sadly.
     
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  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    In fact, the leaders of these terrorist groups MAY have chosen Islam because of how widespread it is in the Middle East, which thanks to the chaos there is a wonderful place to take power relatively easily.
     
  16. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Quick glance at the history books shows it to be par the course during the golden age of Islam. you had an army of tribal raiders just conquer and/or pillage from two great empires and they found themselves awash in sex slaves, money and power.
     
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    And culture and science and civilization and law... but lets ignore that.
     
  18. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Yeah but those things aren't as cool as sex slaves, money and power. that is why they ignore them.
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    But they didn't... in comparison to Christian Europe, Islam during it's Golden Age was pretty advanced.
     
  20. valcik

    valcik Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 20, 2008
    Because I don't see uncontrolled migration with millions of random foreigners entering Schengen area and marching towards Berlin whenever they wish as a safe, viable, and sustainable solution. Perhaps we should cancel the deal with Turkey, open Balkanian route again, and let those millions kept at bay just storming Bavaria as before.