Legion Territory Speculation

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by AureliusofPhoenix, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    I don’t know if my username, title, and profile picture have it away, but despite my personal beliefs I still feel an odd calling to the Legion. I just find them fascinating, in so many ways; in my opinion, they’re the most interesting faction in New Vegas.

    One of the most depressing aspects of Bethesda’s notorious time limit on the making of NV is how we never got to see the Legion controlled territory that was planned; the purpose of this thread is to see what everyone else thinks about what it’d be like. Tranquil? Bleak and depressing? Would there be more arenas like the one at Fortification Hill, a “Capua” of sorts? I’d like to hear everyone’s opinion on what Legion territory would really look like.
     
  2. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 28, 2017
    I suspect outside the major Legion camps and towns it'd be pretty deserted in their overall territory aside from the boarders.

    The reason I think this is because there are virtually no raiders or tribals or anything like that, so there would virtually none of these small towns or pockets of people you find around the wasteland regularly in other territories. That and Legion wants to keep everyone assimilated and not branched off to form their own cultures.

    I imagine Legion Territory being vastly populated and controlled, but with the only populated locations being the major ones and camps and bases. You could probably go for dozens of miles in Legion territory without running into a single soul aside from occasional Legion patrols.
     
  3. MPPlantOfficial

    MPPlantOfficial Still Mildly Glowing

    Aug 24, 2017
    Right after Vegas ending? I can see all of Vegas being resistant to enslavement so they'll slowly introduce it to the region by having the females reduced first to "servants" having to do the menial tasks but still having a degree of freedom. For the strip I can see them meeting the region halfway by having females work at the Casinos as dealers, bartenders and prosts. Strip Vendor still gets to keep her job but now 100% of her earnings goes to Legion.

    A few weeks or months after I would think about 70% of the Vegas population would be dead or enslaved as the area slowly gets populated by Legion and enforcing their culture more adamantly.

    Who would compose of the other 30% who agree to Legion territory citizenship?
    - Maybe 30-40% of the Kings
    - Mick and Ralph
    - Male raiders
    - I'd say about 50% of the Khans (Papa included)
    - Male Non-interactable, Non-NCR NPCs. (a few NCR deserters)
    - ALL Powder gangers
     
  4. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    Why would the Powder Gangers be left alone? Because they're all male or because they attack NCR citizens and soldiers?
     
  5. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    In all of its' ending slides where the Legion won at the Second Battle for Hoover Dam, the Kings either get wiped out completely, or at least some of them fled into the wasteland. Meanwhile, the Powder Gangers of NCRCF either fled into the wasteland, or put to death as mentioned by their ending slide http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings
     
  6. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    that's what I figured would happen considering the Powder Gangers are basically raiders. That's why I was confused.
     
  7. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Well, it's a society built around bondage slavery and war so....in a word shitty. As long as you don't discount slaves as people then it would be horrifying and ubiquitously violent, just not from raids. For most people it would be an open air prison. Escapees would be hunted down all the time. Others wouldn't see a problem. They'd just think, 'oh look, so peaceful', sort of like Dale Barton. Dale is an asshole. Don't be like Dale.
     
  8. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    :lmao:

    That is a valid point though. Many characters in game relegate the Legion to raiders playing dress-up; it's Caesar and his plans for Vegas and the wasteland at large that make them anything more than that. Even then, it's hard to argue with the idea that the Legion is the embodiment of a Hobbesian state of nature, taken to its logical extreme; though, at the same time, there's something to be said for not wanting to repeat the mistakes of the past. Caesar is still a Follower in that regard. IMO one of the greatest tragedies of the Fallout series is that Obsidian never got to expand on that Legion territory part of the map like they wanted to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2018
  9. Steinherz

    Steinherz First time out of the vault

    Jun 26, 2018
    I think that it would be pretty much mirroring the pre-war towns and cities that were on the map, although the smaller ones would probably resemble military camps instead of towns. Overall, it'd be pretty deserted, though. What I'd really like to see is the equivalent of the IRL Rome. What sort of bittersweet post-nuclear paradise would that be?
     
  10. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    That's exactly what I'd love to see too. We know there's an arena at The Fort, and presumably Legionaries watch the matches therein; therefore, we can assume that gladiatorial entertainment does exist in the Legion. I'd love to play a game set in or around Caesar's post apocalyptic Rome, with a big arena mirroring the one in Elder Scrolls Oblivion.
     
  11. Eshanas

    Eshanas Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 6, 2016
    The Legion doesn't enslave every female outright. They enslave tribal females, but leave towns generally alone.

    History shows that if an army comes to your town, especially a Roman army, it's better to billet them and sign a treaty of vassalage with them and the army fucks off. And if there's anything Rome loved, it was making treaties. Caesar would know this. He would know that every empire adopted this general custom because full on permanent war with civilized folk is a draining exercise that is futile. Legion builds up a reputation defeating tribals, the towns cower. Any town stupid enough to resist anyway is burned to show that the Legion will throw down if necessary. Like what happened to Siri's town in NM.

    So the towns have women and the women are seen as sub-human and inferior, and might be abused, and a more cocky officer might enslave one or two, or farms and hamlets might see their women go, but a town outright with a treaty would probably still have their women free. We also hear that the Legion has a sort of Vestal Virgin knockoff that raises, trains, and heals the Legion in their major centers of Flagstaff and Tuscon, while they're technically slaves to the state, they are not personal slaves outright, you dig?

    A lot of this is extrapolation from written, and not seen canon, of course, but it points to a more fleshed out and pragmatic Legion than a lol-so-evul faction. In NV, we see an army and their special forces. They're brutal. They're not the administrators or the managers. They don't care about more civic matters, they're here to win. That's why they'll burn Nipton and Searchlight and attack mercilessly on Novac and Vegas. They cool down by Primm and Goodsprings, though.

    Further extrapolation: Legion doesn't own a lot of territory to begin with. Flagstaff, Tuscon, Phoenix, and Denver. Towns on the roads in between. The Grand Canyon and Lake Mead and the River Colorado there down to Bullshead City and maybe Needles are the front line. We know the Legion doesn't really control Utah because the White Legs are there, the Grand Staircase, which is closer to the crossroad borders of the four-state commonwealth, is seen as safe by Daniel, and the New Canaanites and 88s are around. It is, however, under their influence due to the White Legs. Colorado is probably the same with a tenuous Legion link to Denver. They most likely have Albuguerque. And probably Las Vegas, New Mexico, too. Just out of spite.

    This is why I'm still hoping for a El Paso game. Legion coming from the North, Lone Star Republic from the East. El Paso could be its own thing, juggling the cons and benefit of both while Legion and Lone Star/Texas fight right outside. But I'm digressing.

    Legion Territory: Safe, probably linked by roads and forts on the roads and not much else. Interior probably cleared out and patrolled some times but basically unheld. Sterile. Sort of bleak in that sense but maybe for the Wasteland a heaven.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  12. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    I can see that. Sometimes people are willing to sacrifice their freedom for something resembling security; we see it all the time in the US, more so in the Wasteland.

    As for that game idea, that'd be cool as Hell, but anything that thought-provoking and politically deep probably wouldn't come out've Bethesda Fallout.
     
  13. AureliusofPhoenix

    AureliusofPhoenix Centurion

    Jun 25, 2018
    Love the Hobbes quote btw
     
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  14. Mekt

    Mekt First time out of the vault

    Jun 25, 2018
    I imagine that it would just be more of what we already saw... military camps with perhaps some small trading hubs. Since the Legion is so focused on policing their territory, there wouldn't be raiders or human enemies of any kind (unless you are a profligate who wandered in uninvited, ofc lol)... hell, there probably wouldn't be much hostile wildlife either, if any. It would have been pretty interesting to have more Legion quests and NPCs in the game, if only to balance out the ridiculous amount of NCR content.

    Maybe if Obsidian ever makes another Fallout game, we'll get to see the uncontested, civilized Legion lands first hand. Although it's probably more likely that that will only exist in our imaginations...
     
  15. Post-War Tribal

    Post-War Tribal Local neighbourhood degenerate

    Nov 8, 2018
    A network of military outposts, surrounded by villages, who produces resources with the majority of it's produce going to the Legion, so it can sustain being on constant movement. Other than that we'd probably see a society with a culture cast off of the Legion, and upon its population. With younger citizens not knowing any other world than the one preached upon them by the Legion. And some older ones who'd be more in state of awareness but without motivation nor strength for changing the situation they're in. Whilst watching their young being groomed into idolizing Caesar, The Legion and it's ideals.
     
  16. FreedomStalker

    FreedomStalker Still Mildly Glowing

    Apr 22, 2016
    If I remember correctly, only the women who are a part of Legion territory become slaves. So the women in the Legion towns are not safe. But the women of their allies are left alone. The Legion want to have allies(and need them to fight against the NCR) and understand, their allies want to live the way they want to live and not live like the people of the Legion. It would be foolish for the Legion to force their ways upon everyone. And Legion territory would be like Ancient Rome obviously, except more misogynistic.

    Caesar actually wants to forge a Roman like Empire so they are definitely very different from raiders.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  17. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Until it comes time to betray and enslave their tribe, as with all others.
     
  18. FreedomStalker

    FreedomStalker Still Mildly Glowing

    Apr 22, 2016
    Do they do that though? Wouldn't that be against their code?
     
  19. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Um...yes. They did it to every tribe, except maybe the first (Blackfoots IIRC). What code?
     
  20. FreedomStalker

    FreedomStalker Still Mildly Glowing

    Apr 22, 2016
    They conquered those tribes though.