Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, not exactly America, but at least an immigration ban for a few nations, those that have issues with terrorists and radical islamism. Sounds reasonable, I guess?



    But, maybe someone can explain something, because I am a bit confused right now.
    "(...)There was a random quality to the list of countries: It excluded Saudi Arabia and Egypt, where the founders of Al Qaeda and many other jihadist groups have originated. Also excluded are Pakistan and Afghanistan, where persistent extremism and decades of war have produced militants who have occasionally reached the United States. Notably, perhaps, the list avoided Muslim countries where Mr. Trump has major business ventures."

    But we are mainly talking about refugees, I mean who cares, right? They just exactly the kind of people, that actually want to escape from the things we try to fight.




    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
     
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  2. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Its not a ban on Muslims, it temporarily stops immigration of potential terrorists/extremists from countries that could pretty fairly be described as barbarous and uncivilised.

    Note the word temporary. Its only until they can separate normal people from people who want to shoot innocents/explode.
     
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  3. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Sep 17, 2016
    I cannot leave the country anymore or else possibly face being unable to come back in. I as of right now cannot visit my family in Iran.

    But sure ban Iran who has never once perpetrated a terror attack on US citizens or supported a group that has attacked the US. (Hezbollah and various Palestinian groups while VERY shady fight for Palestinian recognition and independence not for the sake of "jihad" and "global caliphate") Its hilarous how little western dingbats actually know of Iran, why it might dislike them and how it fits into the middle east as its own unique country.

    But oh yeah Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the UAE are suspiciously NOT on that list hmm..

    Also in reply to above commentor: barbarous and uncivilized is a fairly short sighted western thing to say for countries that have continuously bombed and/or intervened in the affairs of said countries. In short if it was a real ban on terrorists they would of banned Turkey and Saudi arabia too.
     
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  4. Millim

    Millim What the fuck is this for a shit?!

    Oct 13, 2010
    Yeah, banning or 'delaying immigration' is just about the most retarded thing a nation could do.

    Also Throatpunch, to say a nation is uncivilised because of what a few groups do is also utterly retarded. You can be seen as barbaric in the eyes of some countries. Then again, you are a joke on the forum.
     
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  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Right.
    Where is the bann on nations that have christian fundamentalist groups like Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) in Uganda?

    Look, I am not saying radical muslims don't exist, or that it should be ignored, or that you souldn't talk about it in fear to "hurt" someones feelings. But let us be honest at least, this bann has A LOT to do with Muslims.

    I mean sorry ... we can't have both worlds here. We can not not talk about muslims, and when those nations are banned say that it is ... not because they are muslims. We have totally a problem with radical islam, but no no! This has nothing to do with muslims! We just don't want them here. I mean seriously, how do you tell a muslim from a radical muslim apart? And how do you tell a radical muslim apart from a jihadist? And how do you know that a jihadist will bomb someone? How do you know from ANYONE that the is a crazy idiot who might kill someone?

    I don't get it, it's always told to 'us', as the left that we're never critical enough about Islam and Muslims. But when something like a registration (like under Bush after 9/11) happens, which was ineffective, expensive and highly questioanble, we're suddenly not allowed to say that it's targeting Muslims? Or like in this case, a bann that is meant to stop terrorism ... but for some reason excludes nations that have been KNOWN(!) to export and finance RADICAL ISLAMISM like wahabism?

    I don't want to attack you ... but seriously ... this is not ok man.
     
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  6. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    I'm for the ban just to be clear, because like @Throatpunch said it's a temporary precaution to give time to implement a better system.

    But it's fucking stupid not having something against UAE or Saudi Arabia. They found and fund the terrorist groups, they shouldn't be exempt just because of their oil and power.
     
  7. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
  8. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What's legal or isn't is sometimes not important, as we are talking about a group that has neither money, oil nor political power - refugees.
    But even if it doesn't happen, the damage is already done. That's the point. The terrorists already won, and many don't realize it. What is the idea behind terrorism? I mean what is the main goal? Is it to cause damage? Or to cause fear?

    A lot of the muslims in the US are alinated by this, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if many are. And this is what even ISIS said by them self. They WANT to didivde our societies, they want to create opositions, where 'we' feel that it is about them and not just an attack on 'us' as a whole and our society, the way how we live. For some people, it is already a case of where you're either European or Muslim, German or Muslim, both? Impossible! Islam is not part of our culture!

    Sometimes I am seriously thinking about converting to Islam, just to fuck with everyone I know ... I mean I do have the Quaran already at home - a horroribly writen book though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
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  10. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    While I would like to see immigration controlled better than it is currently, I do not believe this is the right way to do so, placing a BAN is stopping it, not controlling it, in other words...BAAAAAAD, because the people who ACTUALLY need to get in are being stopped from doing so, (by actual refugees, I mean the ones who aren't wanting to get into western countries to either A: blow shit up, or B: take advantage of our system, for example, Albanians are not refugees, has there been a war there? Not that I know of.)
     
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  11. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Just read up on it. This group is operating solely in Africa though, why would the US halt immigration from that country? Yes, it is most definitely a terrorist group that has done a shitload of atrocities but the concern with immigration is that a person with certain fundemental values that would be harmful towards citizens on US soil could be a threat. As fucked up as it may sound, the LRA is a threat to
    but not a threat to nations outside of the African continent. So why would immigration be temp-banned? The whole point is concern of extremism that would resort to terrorist attacks on US soil and wanting to prevent it as much as possible. LRA? They're not really a concern or 'as much' of a concern as islamic extremists from the middle-east.
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    No clue! Just to be sure I would say! They are ... frightening! And terrorists! I mean the fact that they are not doing it, doesn't mean they couldn't do it!

    I just want to sound like some of those people that are frightened by muslim terrorists :/. But I just can't. It was just an example man. What do I know. You could as well say, why don't we have a bann on people coming from Russia, or Ukraine or what ever. I also asked, for the case you missed it, why is there no bann for Turkey, Saudi Arabia and many other muslim nations. Could it be, beacuse the nations that are banned have no Trump hotels? This bann is already now creating nothing but chaos, while being largely ineffective, but all the people that see a problem with Muslims run around like crazy now, beacuse someone is finally doing "something".
     
  13. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    :shrug:
     
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  14. Danuis

    Danuis Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 6, 2016
    It is interesting of just how many said 'Yes, mister President, right away.' The whole first week hasn't affected me personally, but I have been viewing it with the possibly callous call of 'Do it, you punk, do it...both of you...go as far as you can. I want to see the limit.'

    All these protests and actions mean jack shit if the hard power doesn't change - eg, electoral and governmental - Governments are just big gangs, even if you're a statist such as myself, that is what it can be boiled down to. The involvement of the people is always - always - weak and temporary, and if the people are apathetic enough the government can and does do whatever it wishes; until it is self-destructive, which is the point it either changes or commits suicide, and only does so for itself, not for the subjugated non-members.

    And apparently, throwing the rabid masses which supported him this nearly ineffective and worthless temporary visa ban, as others have already written in this thread, which is setting stones for a confrontation with the Judicial branch, is not on that path yet. Forecast: more executive orders, more protests. Too little, too late. Let's hope everyone isn't as apathetic as they were in 2014/2016 in 2018/2020. That's all I can really say.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
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  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    The reason they don't include Saudi Arabia is because it's a major ally for America in the middle east that acts as a counterbalancing force against Iran and Israel, by attempting to expand their own influence they get into a conflict and stalemate which stops them from becoming the regional superpower. Jesus Christ people, know your geopolitics/international politics.

    Also why ban Russia and Ukraine?
     
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  16. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Cause Russia totes behind tampering with US election yo.
     
  17. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    "muh ruskie hakers"
     
  18. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Sep 17, 2016
    But it wouldn't stop terrorism is the point. Where was Osama from? Did we forget how many members of the royal family FUNDED ISIS? Or where all these jihadists actually come from? Also Saudi Arabia is a paper tiger, they would lose a war with Iran or Turkey very quickly. Their country has poor infrastructure, barely populated and a poor population. Not to forget Russia's guarantee with Iran.

    Isreal may be the US's puppet but Saudi arabia is a monster that takes advantage of the American need for oil.

    EDIT: So for clarification if the ban was REALLY about stopping terrorism in war zones or places that have or export terrorists there are some pretty big issues with it. Notably that many US gulf nation allies are not included on the list who surprise surprise support Wahhabism.
     
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  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Why do you think the US supports Saudi Arabia? It does so especially because it's so weak, to secure Arabia's oil and to ensure they act as an appropriate counterbalance to Iran. It used to be Iraq but well... thanks to the Americans, not anymore. Unless the Americans go into isolationism, they'll probably defend or support Saudi Arabia in a war against Iran, because having an American-opposed nation like Iran dominating one of the biggest oil reserves on the planet is a big no-no. So if Donald Trump was trying to stop terrorism he would include Saudi Arabia, but as he, and naturally like no other American leader wants to insult it.

    It's a sad day that the US is so meek with the Saudi's, helping them stay in power and ignoring their atrocities. It's sadder because the Saudi's use America's lack of courage with them to become more and more bolder, as we can see from their invasion of Yemen and blatant support of terrorists.
     
  20. Danuis

    Danuis Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 6, 2016
    At least they're getting their asses handed to them in Yemen and their influence curbed in Iraq. Saudi Arabia is a ticking time bomb. Once the oil runs out and Saudi Aramco ceases to exist, we'll see a collapse greater than the crisis now, because for all the talk of a post-Oil Saudi Arabia, little has been or can be done. It'll be a deserted place, save for the Mecca-Medina corridor.