NCR vs mr house

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Xilbus, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. Xilbus

    Xilbus First time out of the vault

    Nov 11, 2010
    Hi everyone,

    Ive been trying to side with both the NCR and Mr House.

    Im at a point in the game were the NCR wants me to take out
    Mr House and Mr house wants me to take out the BOS.
    Im a Paladin with the BOS so i wont attack them thats for sure but i still feel that Mr house is good.

    Is there a way to continue my advancement with the NCR without removing Mr house?
    The NCR seems like the only real option for what looks like a Country. arrgggg the choices are tuff lol
     
  2. Little Robot

    Little Robot sup Orderite

    Sep 29, 2010
    NCR and House are directly at odds, despite the uneasy alliance in the first part of the game. House wants an independent Vegas and Hoover Dam while NCR wants control over the entire region. At some point in the game you reach a point where you can't keep playing factions against one another and it sounds as if you have reach that point.
     
  3. Xilbus

    Xilbus First time out of the vault

    Nov 11, 2010
    thanks for your reply, i just feel bad that i have to kill Mr house lol

    I would of liked the option to tell Mr house that its time for you to move to another state. Move your cryogenic tank to Alaska or something hehe.
     
  4. WelcomeToNewReno

    WelcomeToNewReno Vault Dweller

    Dec 3, 2010
    I personallu say to hell with both those options. Lead vegas to independance yourself. It felt pretty rewarding to me.
     
  5. Little Robot

    Little Robot sup Orderite

    Sep 29, 2010
    I also took the Yes Man path my first playthrough but it's always nice to play the game as a different kind of character. To truly have experienced the game you basically have to help each faction once, imo.
     
  6. Requete

    Requete First time out of the vault

    Aug 9, 2006
    Yes you can even achieve good Legion ending when you choose to disobey some Ceasar orders and do minor quests the right way; this game Rocks!
     
  7. DGT

    DGT It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 7, 2006
    I still haven't finished, but while I planned to kill Mr. House I couldn't bring myself to do so -- his speech about not wanting anything from people but to preserve and uplift the city he loved was somewhat touching, but I still could've disconnected him with ease.

    The problem was his stated goals; he believes he can have people in space in 50 years, and colonizing the stars in 100? I see no reason he couldn't, and that's just too noble a goal for me to shut it down -- yet. I plan on doing enough playthroughs (eventually, I mean) to cover all the bases, so he's going down henceforth.

    On that note, at least for Mr. House Obsidian surprised me -- I had low expectations thanks to Fallout 3, and just expected a tyrant robobrain a la Point Lookout (which was awful DLC, but that's off-topic).
     
  8. blixs89

    blixs89 First time out of the vault

    Dec 4, 2010
    I hated House. I only finished the game with him once and never again. The man was nothing more than a tyrant with delusions of grandeur. He might have been a genius be thought too highly of himself and set goals far beyond his abilities.
     
  9. Little Robot

    Little Robot sup Orderite

    Sep 29, 2010
    But he went to MIT! That's got to count for something, right?
     
  10. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    Jan 20, 2009
    I don't want much; I never asked anything from anybody. I just want to keep ruling Brooklyn as its lord and master. Why must you destroy my dream?
     
  11. biggestantman

    biggestantman First time out of the vault

    May 13, 2010
    make mr. house suffer and live with no link to the robots if possible i have not try yet but i will check and see no one make me kill the brotherhood.
     
  12. DGT

    DGT It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 7, 2006
    Rofl yes, he is a tyrant -- but he seems to be a noble tyrant. Benevolent dictatorship is nigh-impossible to find/create, but I think Mr. House might be setting one up.

    That's the thing, he doesn't want credit for being "lord and master," he just wants prosperity for the city -- he's already got plenty of wealth for himself. The NCR's rampant corruption isn't any better, and the Legion is the closest thing to evil I've found in NV.
     
  13. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    Jan 20, 2009
    Let's break that down.

    "He just wants prosperity for the city."

    About the only thing he really mentions is his love of the city's pre-war heritage. He hates the people in the city. Consider:

    - He's violently expelled everybody who didn't want to be ruled by him.
    - He's forcibly forbidden people from residing in places he couldn't control, such as Vault 22.
    - He's set up a power structure of sycophants and criminals whose feudal power he controls with an army...
    - ...and army that willfully kills anybody who dares attempt entry while guilty of the sin of not being rich.
    - His regime, whose entire economy is dependent on leeching outside civilizations,
    - is barely one square mile, surrounded on all sides by slums where starvation, crime and violence of the worst sort continue...
    - ...without the merest hint of interest by him for well over a century.

    He reminds me of "visionary" architects who are in love with their pet projects: They love the building, but have barely-concealed contempt for the people that may occupy it. His sole good work in the last two hundred years is ensure that the Las Vegas Strip was not nuked.

    That's fine, but the rest of the city is pretty much toast, and even if he did save his corner of it, that doesn't give him the right to lord over its people, nor does it in any way make him a "benevolent" ruler. His is right by might; nothing more. He's like the Boomers, except their self-sufficiency isn't dependent on fleecing all their neighbors.

    As for the NCR, their corruption may as far as we know be rampant, but at least they make a spirited attempt to:

    - have an self-sufficient economy.
    - feed their citizens.
    - defend their citizens.
    - accept immigrants.
    - abide by a rule of law.
    - outreach to their neighbors.
     
  14. DGT

    DGT It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 7, 2006
    That's why I'll be going with the NCR for my next playthrough.

    I just think House is more likely to civilize and advance the wasteland quickly, while NCR is already over-reaching now. House has only been back online for a few years (7, I believe), and that time's been consumed mostly by re-establishing what he can of Vegas while dealing with the NCR/Legion. The people in Freeside chose to leave rather than submit -- a somewhat brutal choice to be forced on them, but living in Vegas proper seems to be quite alright. Also, 2000 caps isn't exactly "rich" in the Vegas area, if I'd followed the main quest to the Strip I'd've had the money when I got there. As I explored before worrying about the Strip I actually had two or three times what they asked.

    Edit: I'm not saying House is wonderful, I'm saying his fixation on economic domination and technological advancement makes him seem slightly preferable to me relative to the bureaucracy and military expansion of the NCR.
     
  15. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    Jan 20, 2009
    House has been awake since 2138. He sat dormant until 2274. The game takes place in 2281. He didn't invent any new technology since awaking, nor does he have any systems in place to create new technology.

    All his stuff is pre-war, and he's living off of it. He planned well pre-war. He did. I concede that point. But he was a plutocrat then amidst a society that worked. He's a warlord now amidst a society that's struggling - and all the scientists for this technocratic future work for the NCR or BoS: Both of whom he's in direct competition to.

    His power - that which exists beyond his tiny fiefdom, as his robot army have a range more limited than most extension cords - comes from his wealth, which comes from his casinos, which have laid dormant until the NCR showed up as a great fat body for him to latch onto and suck the blood out of. He cannot exist without a host, and the NCR is that host.
     
  16. DGT

    DGT It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 7, 2006
    The Lucky 38's reactor went offline, putting House into a more or less dormant state until a few years before the game, when he approached the tribes and gave them their casinos.

    As far as him requiring a host; right now, yes, that is true. The thing about wealth, though, is that properly managed it sustains and grows itself; with the money he makes from tourism he can hire workers to begin industry, fund research, etc. Such endeavors are basically stated to be his goal, and as the head of a prominent company pre-War (which yes, had a society that more or less worked) I don't see him having trouble organizing that industry and research.

    NCR, on the other hand, is focused on expansion and survival; they've got a total buffoon in charge of a power plant / weapons system -- which, if they'd discovered, they could've used to decimate the Legion. They're essentially trying to copy-paste pre-War ideals onto the post-apocalyptic society, a noble-sounding goal that clearly isn't going as smoothly as House's economic conquest or even Caesar's outright conquest and assimilation.

    Also, towards the end of the game House's range is extended over the Mojave due to the increased power from the dam; if he added another HELIOS-esque plant or a nuclear facility, it seems logical that his range would extend still farther.

    Though this isn't a facet of the pseudo-debate (since you agreed), I just feel I need to mention just how well he planned pre-War; it's (admittedly, according to him) entirely thanks to his actions that Vegas was basically untouched by the nukes. IIRC only like 7/77 nukes got through his defensive measures, and none of those hit Vegas itself. Fairly astonishing (to the point of straining suspension of disbelief), since as far as we know even the US Government wasn't able to do that anywhere.

    Edit: I see from the Vault that the game guide says he woke up in 2138; I was wondering where you were getting that. I can't remember exact quotes, but House's in-game dialogue left me with the impression he began acting more or less immediately. Idk on that one, wish I could go back and check the dialogue.
     
  17. Rantalot

    Rantalot First time out of the vault

    Dec 11, 2010
    House has only been in power for a decade or so, give the man some credit. Where was Shady Sands a decade after its establishment?
     
  18. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    Jan 20, 2009
    Feeding itself.

    And I'm of the opinion that House had to wait because he had no economy before all these folks with money started flooding in from the West. Casinos don't MAKE money, they REDISTRIBUTE it... towards the casinos.
     
  19. mandala

    mandala It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 5, 2006
    For me it's quite simple, who's going to make you more rich and powerful?
    Why Mr House of course!
     
  20. brfritos

    brfritos Humma Kavulaaaaaaa

    Sep 8, 2009
    - Have an self-sufficient economy that bolst the NCR first and then the inhabitants of Mojave IF there's something interesting in their communities.
    - Feed their citizens and their citizens only
    - Defend their citizens and only their citizens
    - Accept imigrants, but only if they don't get in the way
    - Abide by a rule of law, unless the law needs to be bend (they even hire mercenaries and criminals)
    - Outreach to their neighbors IF it's interesting. Novac is defended by whom? NCR it isn't. Goodspring happens to be in the middle, otherwise...

    Mr. House is no better either, a tyrant is a tyrant, no matter how the game paint him with good colors, but the NCR is the classical definition of steamroller imperialism in action.
    Every conversation with someone in the NCR is first about the resources that they can extract, then only in a loooong second place the locals (with a few exceptions).

    If you want me choosing between House or NCR, NCR is the lesser evil, so I'll stick with her.
    But it's a evil nonetheless.

    That's why I like the Independent Vegas more, they could shape their own destiny without interference.

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