"Oh, you just need the right build!"

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Danuis, Aug 12, 2017.

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  1. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Oh god, now begins the furry mating ritual. EVERYONE, RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN
     
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  2. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Ad hominem's don't get anywhere.

    Most novels are just trash, generic cliche filled trash.
     
  3. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Whatever you say, kitty. It's cute when you make these noises.
     
  4. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I tend to not run into this issue in classic Fallout games and modern Fallout games (except for 4 but then again with no skills points in that game, it's irrelevant to bring it up here) simply because I go for high Intelligence, low Endurance builds. I tend to gravitate towards play-styles that allows me to talk my way out of a situation and more knowledge on other areas helps. In other games I go for a diplomatic build, prioritizing social skills over combat ones.
     
  5. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Ad hominem's don't get anywhere.

    Most novels are just trash, generic cliche filled trash.
     
  6. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015

    But seriously, though... Find yourself a private room, guys.
    Simply because humans always tend to go for a least difficult way, at least for the first time. Full diplomat builds tend to have the easiest playthroughs. And this is also a staple mistake in RPG gamedesign.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  7. Danuis

    Danuis Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 6, 2016
    I also have gravitated to at least taking a point off END for INT, but do tell?
     
  8. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Do tell me why. Or don't, I will. Because this is how it should be. Because END tend to be a dump stat, since characters more likely die to a critical hit, and there's not much of a skill checks or any kind of interactions written in Fallout 1 & 2 for Endurance, unlike Intelligence. It's not like 3D games any different in this regard, but for different reasons, of course. Bethesda can't program parkour (13th district parkour scene passing by) or environment destruction or proper diseases to actually put STR and END to a better use in stale gameplay, for example.
     
  9. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Could you elaborate further on this? I am genuinely curious to know what you mean by this.
     
  10. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I'm going to assume 0wing meant that by Speech/Diplomatic characters in RPGs tend to be the 'Easy mode', to the point where the run doesn't really involve much 'gameplay mechanics' or, as many people tend to summarize (I'm not assuming 0wing to be one here, btw), 'combat mechanics'. Just look at Age of Decadence, released in 2015. The full-talker playthrough is literally easy mode, where we just choose the dialogue options with best outcome and roll with it. There's literally no combat involved in a full-talker playthrough, at all.

    Tbh, I'm one of those guys who think dialogues and stat/skill-checks are part of the gameplay mechanics in RPGs, but even then I do notice how the dialogues and stat/skill-checks in most RPGs felt underwhelming because they weren't interwoven enough into the game to feel like a proper gameplay mechanic. That's why I'm kinda looking forward to No Truce with the Furies, even though there wouldn't be traditional RPG combat mechanic, it looks like it can offer dialogues and stat/skill-checks as proper gameplay mechanic.
     
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  11. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I see. I get what you mean by diplomatic characters being easy modes in some RPGs.

    Thanks for the reply in any case.
     
  12. Risewild

    Risewild Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I guess at least in FO3 Endurance was the Attribute for Big Guns.
     
  13. Danuis

    Danuis Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 6, 2016
    I'm a hundred hours or so into Underrail. I don't mind builds, really, I guess. Fallout:NV's manual came with build pointers. I should think of builds like classes than anything else.

    Speaking of Underrail: since I don't want to necro the Underrail thread: I love it. I love it love it love it, and if I fail with my current build I'll put it down for a while and come back to it, maybe when the sequel or dlc comes out. My only problem is that PSI is wayyyyy too overemphasized but that's a personal thing, and my current build kills lunatics aplenty if I'm smart and strike first (woo stealth sniper/assault mix). Main point of the game seems to be patience overall, then it becomes extremely fun around level 5 and keeps going from there. I don't even have a problem with 'fast travel' because, (with a map) Underrail isn't even that big, and I've walked from SGS to Camp Hathor to Junkyard to South Outpost to Crossroad to The Foundry and Core City with no sweat. Oh, and fuck crawlers, but that's about it. I wonder if the deep caverns will dampen my fun....
     
  14. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Yes, it WILL dampen your fun. Don't worry and don't be afraid, just spoil yourself what you need to do down there. Despite all the tweaks and patches, it was still a fucking slog to go through. Use cheat engine to speed things up, or craft Tabi Boots/speed boosting gear if you don't want to use CE. Or just don't go down there and start new playthrough with new build.
     
  15. Danuis

    Danuis Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 6, 2016
    Ninja tabi boots from blaine are part of my most essential gear
     
  16. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    Yeah, but in AoD, isn't that supposed to be the point? I mean, the all talker playthrough is basically you doing diplomatic stuff. Even in the "go get an army!" part of Ganezzar, you don't actually command the army (unless you fuck up in dialogue), unlike if you play as Praetor/Imperial Guard. It's not a good example imo, because in AoD, the all talker playthrough is unique, while in other RPGs, all talker is basically the same, but with less fighting overall. Also, AoD is a bit unique because you can't really get the full experience/idea of what's going on in only one playthrough.
     
  17. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Pretty sure you can get through the Praetor lines without fighting too.
    Same for Thief, though I think you might need critical strike to sneaky-kill a few guards. And there's that single obligatory battle in Maadoran, but you can recruit some help for that I think.
     
  18. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    I honestly know of few legitimately challenging RPG's.

    I don't mean 'its hard because they slapped a X10 multiplier on enemy HP and damage', I mean genuine challenge.

    Maybe they're hard for newer people, but...Fallout 1-2 aren't remotely hard, the only times I die are from purely RNG critical hits which practically can 1-2 hit even high level characters.

    Typically there's either 'go full attack build', and you then trivially crush enemies.

    Or 'Diplomacy mode', and you win without a single attack trivially.
     
  19. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    Hm, I've never tried Crassus Praetor. (most I did was Aurelian Praetor who defected to Crassus just to see that unique ending) Do you get to command the army when you call for help? Aurelian Praetor requires you to fight, if you want to save Gaelius. Also the catacombs area requires some fighting. (although you can get rid of a huge number of enemies by a dialogue option) As for Daratan.. I don't think this classifies as its own line, to be honest.. specially with that ending. But yes, it can be passed without fighting.

    Thief is the only line I haven't played, been meaning to do that for a while.
     
  20. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Both Daratan and Aurelian can lead into the Crassus line (amongst other things, like being guildless), you can't really start out with the Crassus stuff, probably since it's all in the final city so it wouldn't work with the 3 act/city structure of the game. It's just a defection really.

    I'm not sure what you're referring to here at all.
    Save Gaelius?
    Catacombs? You mean the tomb with the helmet? I'm pretty sure you don't need to fight there, though I may be remembering wrong.
    I googled a bit and found this: http://i.imgur.com/nQ73Ny8.png https://steamcommunity.com/app/230070/discussions/0/496879865902458882/
    0 bodycount and Aurelian Praetor, though not really clear which path he took to get there. But looks to be at the very end judging by all the skill points and his insanely high rep. Wonder how he got that single combat skill point though. Maybe there's a single mandatory battle where he just hid in a corner.

    I mean the one where you start out as a Daratan Praetor. The small stuff where you sorta-kinda join him with other characters doesn't really count.
    I think it's a perfectly fine quest-line. What happens in Maadoran is one of my favourite parts of the game, especially the Act2 ending slide card that goes "clearly you're not being paid enough".
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017