Siding with the Institute is the only sane choice

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by CT Phipps, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Am I the only one here?

    I mean for those who give any sorts of shit about the story.

    So, both of us.

    Destroying a city of advanced technology to stop the already dying leader's plans is ridiculous.

    I just feel bad for the railroad and the BOS kids.
     
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I agree.
    The BoS is a bunch of Neoluddites, the Railroad is a bunch of idiots, and the Minutemen, while theoretically nice people, are not really equipped to really do anything but help when settlements are under attack (which a certain person will mark on your map).
    Since the Institute makes you the de facto leader it is the absolute best choice because then the player can positively influence the Institute into maybe not being a dick to the wastelanders anymore, and slowly utilize them to help the Commonwealth.
    Not that the player has any option to explain that to his disgruntled followers.
     
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  3. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    To be fair, Valentine shuts the hell up if you tell him, "Did you want the Brotherhood to win?"

    I'm also still trying to figure out how the Railroad even came into existence. I have no problem with them being people who helped escaping Synths but I have problems with the fact they're apparently a paramilitary army of no small force.
     
  4. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    If the Institute was a big, open governing body that openly employed slave labour in the Commonwealth (like what it sounded to be in Fallout 3) the Railroad would make some sort of sense, but not like this.
     
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  5. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    The Institute is one of those factions that if it didn't make you leader after Father's death, there would be literally no reason to side with them.

    The Institute piss off Wastelanders for no apparent reason, yet keep there isolationism, consistently waste resources and have no long-term goals or plans. Them winning would benefit nobody other than a tiny select group of people.

    Becoming the leader of the Institute is an incredibly lazy way to add possibilities to them, and the only thing making them remotely a viable choice.
    Lol, as if Bethesda would make a game with an actual governing body.

    Have to have the still completely uncivilised even after 200 years feel.
     
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  6. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Wastelands gotta wasteland.
     
  7. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Okay, this keeps coming up but it's not true. They do have long-term plans. It's "expand the Institute underground." They're not idiots or genocidal. They want keep living underground away from the super mutants and ghouls and radiation. They have a civilization down below which is safe and secure.

    Why shit on that plan?
     
  8. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    So why are they constantly meddling with the surface world, infiltrating and messing shit up? It's kind of stupid to endanger your plan of staying away from the surface by messing with the surface all the time.
     
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  9. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Which'd be fine, if it didn't involve shitting on people who are just trying to get by or make a difference.

    Every other faction can be seen as being somewhat beneficial to the wasteland, but the Institute not only doesn't benefit anyone but themselves, but involves shitting on people who cause benefit to people other than themselves.
    Which is exactly why they dump millions of Supermutants on the surface, destroyed entire towns, kill people and replace them with spies and support raider gangs.

    The best way to be isolationists is to piss off everyone who isn't you and make the world above even more dangerous.
    Because if the alternatives are people who want to stop there insane meddling on the surface or free there slave caste, then the isolationist minority who are fucking over everyone who isn't them doesn't seem so appealing.
     
  10. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'm not defending Fallout 4's writing but the Institute fucks with people because it turns out living underground completely self-sufficient is hard.

    They needed a super-duper nuclear reactor and Kellog and Father kept fucking it up. The first time they failed to get one was when a girl found one and they sent an army to get it, massacring the town and thus ruining their chances of finding it since she died in the process.

    The second time was when the BOS wanted it first and you can choose who to give it to.

    All the other experiments are either to keep an eye on the surface (because the Railroad is looking for them) or for experiments to help live underground like testing those radiation-resistant seeds which they murdered a guy to replace him for.

    I.e. they fuck with people on the surface so they can take their stuff or test it.

    Yes, Kellog is a psychopath and Father hates the surfacers. Their whole plan of being the new humanity living undegrround isn't an axiomatically bad one, though.
     
  11. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Also, if they wanted to get away from the super mutants, here's a tip: DON'T FUCKING MAKE THEM.
     
  12. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    They were tagging them and leaving them in the wild!

    :)

    *watches from safe distance*
     
  13. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Sounds like a cross between the Enclave and Vault dwellers.
     
  14. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    This is exactly what I mean.

    If it wasn't for you taking over as leader, there would be literally no reason to side with these guys.

    The faction, as they stand does horrible things to surfacers in order to benefit a tiny minority of people.

    It's kinda lazy when the only way in which a faction is redeemable and not unambiguously a bad choice is when you take over.
    So they create highly dangerous creatures that could wipe out an entire wasteland if they tried, to watch them from a distance?

    And for what, so they can, find out how Supermutants behave?

    That seems like next to no reward in return for creating a huge threat for themselves and potentially blocking any chance of the surface becoming more habitable for them.
     
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  15. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'm not sure I follow your logic. "There's no reason to side with a faction that only has two bad people in it over factions which want to destroy/kill everyone else in said faction for the action of two said bad people."
     
  16. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    What made me laugh so hard and stop playing FO4 for really long time:

    Father (at Directorate meeting): I want my dad to takeover after my death. Did I say that I completely trust his judgement?
    Nate: K...
    F (some time later): As you take over after my death you can lead the next Directorate meeting and set new goals for the Institute. Did I say that I completely trust your judgement?
    N: K...
    After the meeting- new objective to talk to Father
    F: What do you think about Railroad?
    N: I'm second in command- they all trust me, I've done some radiant quests for them, got perk from their companion etc.
    F: K'illl 'em.
    N: Why? They aren't threat.
    F: K'illl 'em.
    N: You said that I lead the Institute, that you completely trust my judgement...
    F: K'illl...
    Deleting FO4 complete.
     
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  17. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    This entire faction is operating under the will of these two said bad people.

    Imagine if Caesar and Lanius had been actively genocidal, and didn't care for protecting the lands they conquered. Nobody would ever side with the Legion.

    A faction with good goals can gain sympathy. The Institute has corrupt/evil leadership and no relatable goals. Were it not for you taking over, there'd be no reason to side with them.
     
  18. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    The entire population is completely ignorant of their activities. They applaud you for stopping the Raider Synth as it helped the people above. The Super Mutant Project is also a secret.

    That is just describing Lanius without Caesar.

    Again, the Institute does not = Shaun.
     
  19. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Are the Institute not clever enough to figure out they are the only people in the Commonwealth who could be doing that shit?
    The whole reason people relate to Legion is because of Caesar.

    If the leader of a faction controls all it's activities, and that leader is doing unambiguously evil stuff, that tends to translate over to the faction.
    Sure, but if you weren't able to take over from Shaun, there'd be literally no reason to side with The Institute, since you'd essentially be helping him get full control over the Wasteland.
     
  20. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    No no no, you've got it all wrong. The best ending is to avoid the cutscene altogether, by not destroying any of the factions any more than you have-to. Of course you still slaughter the Institute, but stop short of blowing it up. That way their resources go to the minutemen or the railroad I guess? I mean, given how much the Institute messes with them it stands to reason that they won't suck so many eggs, without all the inexplicable sabotage. Either way, it's kind of like asking whether it's better to be eaten by a bear, a crocodile, a hippo, or a lion. The only good option is to say nothing, and slowly slide backwards into the hedges for concealment.
     
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