The Guns and Ammo Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Kalessin, May 4, 2006.

  1. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    PRO with the rubber cover would be very hard to distinguish from a CompM3. But a CompM4 would stick out like a sore thumb. ;)
     
  2. Nuka-Knight

    Nuka-Knight First time out of the vault

    Apr 28, 2017
    Headed to a gun show at my local fairgrounds this weekend, anyone have a recommendation for what to look for? I've been interested in finding a good .357 or .44 (Python or Anaconda are the first things coming to mind) for my 21st.
     
  3. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Snoop around for a used Manurhin MR-73. Maybe you get lucky.
    For .44Mag obviously the S&W Model 29. Classic.
     
  4. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    If he sees a Manurhin MR-73 stateside, at a gun show, in working condition, for a reasonable price, he probably should have bought a lottery ticket instead.
    Colt revolvers are commanding a premium right now. I've seen Pythons run from $1,800 - $3,000, and Anacondas running up to $4,000 in the California market. It's not impossible or even all that unlikely to find one at a decent sized gun show, but it's pricing reflects collector value more then functional value. If this is going to be a first handgun on a budget, I'd look at Smith or even Taurus first.
    -
    The other thing you have to be careful of when buying a used Colt is whether or not the cylinder is properly timed. The pawl Colt used to set timing is a wearable item. It is what gave the Colts such great lock-up, but they had to be maintained from time to time. You can still get timing adjustment and pawl replacement from Colt, but it is a lengthy wait right now. If you don't know enough about Colts to tell if the one you are looking at is properly timed, you definitely want to bring somebody who does. The problem with gun shows is that the ignorance premium is high; they are easy places to get rid of guns in questionable condition for inflated prices to people who may not be able to tell otherwise, and you may not be able to find the seller again if something goes wrong.
    -
    If you really want a Python or an Anaconda, Cabelas has several in their used gun inventories, and will ship one to a local store for something like $25. You can search their used inventory on-line, and they give you some indication of the condition of the firearm, as well as some photos.
     
  5. Nuka-Knight

    Nuka-Knight First time out of the vault

    Apr 28, 2017
    I appreciate the advice on that. It was a decent show, but nothing of too much interest that I could find. A couple older FAL models caught my eye, and I saw a non-functional replica of a wood stock G3 that would make a cool display piece, but better to wait for next month. A couple peacemaker recreations looked nice though.
     
  6. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Not necessarily. Fairly recently a batch of used revolvers were sold at aim surplus. Their finish was pretty bad, but they were mechanically fine. Quick googling tells me they went for $429.50, but were sold out in half an hour.

    So finding a cheap MR-73 isn't necessarily outside the realm of possibility.

    Americans do sometimes think that they're some mystical revolvers, but they're just better than an S&W 686 and slightly better than a Python, but obviously inferior to a Korth Combat.
    I'd put them on par with a S&W 686 which was modified by a competent gun smith, but the MR-73 also uses far better steel which increases longevity.
     
  7. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Nighthawk has some kind of licensing deal with Korth, and has started importing what I would call 'Korth-lite' revolvers domestically. Not classic Korth, but more like an American 'value' line, even though they start at something like $3,500 US. I was all over this when I thought they would be importing conventional Korths, but I am mostly ambivalent about the new models.

    I put this little guy together this weekend and took it to the indoor range:



    I did not make any friends. I may have also caused some people permanent hearing damage. I had forgotten how loud an unsuppressed .308 could be, and the 16" barrel did not help matters. There was a guy two lanes down sighting in a .300 WSM gun, and mine was louder.

    I am not as excited about the Magpul stock as I had hoped. Better than the Hogue, but it seemed to have a little more flex then I would have liked. And of course, this configuration was not excited about running on the cheap stuff. I had a 2 MOA group at 100 yards with PMC 147gr, that shrunk in half with the Federal Gold Medal 168gr. This guy will be going back on the shelf for a while until the can comes in. Just too loud to shoot for my tastes.
     
  8. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    I shoot a 20" .308Win indoor, but without a brake. I didn't want to annoy people with my pressure waves & noise too much. And since it's a heavy bolt gun, it's not like the recoil is going to matter much.

    The clean 20" .308Win is far less annoying than a braked 14.5" .223Rem to the people around me.
     
  9. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Not to make a joke in poor taste, but it is amazing the difference four extra inches produces. My Knights gun is considerably quieter unsuppressed no brake, and my AI, which also has a 20" barrel and a brake, is way, way quieter. I just found a place that will make Lilja barrels for the 700 with a taper that will accommodate my Knights can. Unfortunately, they do not do AI barrels, and putting a 26" barrel on the 700 kind of defeats the reasons I built it. I've got an AAC can coming in the next month or two (I hope) that will quiet it down quite a bit, and keep the overall footprint around 22".

    From my day at the range with it, it's definitely going to be minute of plate at 600 yards, which is good enough for most of the ranges I visit when I travel, and it will be small enough to fit in my smallest Pelican 1700, on the diagonal.

    On a semi-related note, a friend of mine clued me into Wiha recently. I had been using an inexpensive but also not terribly accurate Wheeler torque driver, and I got pissed at it when it cammed out a torx screw at allegedly 15 inch pounds. So I got this guy:



    I gather Wiha is German, and we always consider everything of German origin to be magically engineered over here, whether true or not, the thoughts of which we soothe ourselves after forking out nearly $300 for a glorified screw driver. Nonetheless, I really like this set in use so far.
     
  10. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Yup, yup, I need a new quality torque driver as well, but luckily I did not foolishly go for cheap Chinesium first. ;)
     
  11. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Back in town for a week. I found out I could order a custom Dan Wesson direct from the factory a couple months ago, so I spec'd out a Valor BOB (VBOB) in 10mm. Couple minor custom touches, like a recessed and nubbed slide-stop, EGW matched bushing & plug, flush-cut and crowned barrel, solid trigger, etc...




    I have no complaints.


    Recoil isn't bad at all, but I am also using PPU's 180gr @ 1100 FPS, and probably more like 1050. Definitely on the FBI Lite spec. I have a bunch of Sig V-Crown pushing the same bullet at 1260 FPS, which is full-power Norma spec, and Buffalo Bore's Heavy 10 @1300 FPS, which is a full nuclear load. But I have no plans on running either through this gun, as I got it for social purposes, not hunting or woods carry.

    I've also got to give Sig some credit for putting out a Norma spec load at a fairly inexpensive price, and for designing their 220 around it. It's still fairly stout, but the 220 absorbs a lot of it with ease. A really well-designed 10mm.
     
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  12. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    What's your intended use for it? If you say social purposes, does that mean as a classy carry piece?
     
  13. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    I'm also sort of on the lookout for a torque driver or a set, not for guns but for my bicycles. :-)
     
  14. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Social carry in the sense that it is going to be carried in the world of people, cars, and buildings, as opposed to bear, moose, and trees. I originally got into 10mm for woods carry, but a Norma spec or greater load that can penetrate 8" of elk muscle and bone would have a tendency to go right through a person, the next two walls behind them, and the dish washer. Plus, I have no intention of sweating all over the Dan Wesson or dinging it up on rocks, tree branches, or my pack, and not maintaining it for several days. That's what I have Glocks for. So this will mostly be shot and carried with the considerably lower powered PPU. I've recovered a couple rounds from bowling pin shoots, and it mushrooms pretty nicely. It's also run well in competition, so I feel comfortable with it. The VBOB is for summer carry, as it is a little more concealable in lighter clothing then my normal Government sized 1911s.

    I really love my Wiha torque driver. However, people who love bicycles seem to love the Venzo. I came across it a couple of times in my torque wrench research. It is inexpensive, and I guess covers the range of torque bicyclists seem to need the most.

    Edit: Normally, I am way more concerned about Elk or coyotes in the woods then I am about bears, which are usually deterred with loud noises and/or pepper spray. However, in my part of the states, there have been a lot of black bear attacks this year. Black bears are normally more docile and people averse, but I guess our population boom in the last few years have given them a lot more exposure to people as sources of food, one way or the other. Here is the latest attack this week:

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-ranch-christian-retreat-northwest-of-boulder

    Bear tried to eat a teenager at a retreat in the foothills.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  15. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Got two new holsters in the mail today, of very similar design, but for different purposes.

    First up is a Garrett Industries Silent Thunder, kydex with leather lining. This will be for my Nighthawk longslide for competition. Easily adjusted for tension and cant. It clicks in well, but releases super easy after the first 1/4 inch of travel, and is a little kinder on my finish then a pure kydex rig.


    It will ride on my Mean Gene Aegis gun belt, along with my Long's Shadow double mag pouch. Usually, it's a struggle to fit a holster on the Mean Gene, because it is over a quarter inch thick. However, I gave them my belt thickness when ordering the holster, and they cut the loops perfectly. It is a really nice combination, very stable and close to the body.


    Also got a Tucker Gun Leather HF1 in the same design. I bought this almost purely for show, and it will be worn mostly at the outside range and at certain social gatherings of my peer group. The pictures don't do it justice.



    Being leather, it is super tight at the moment. It will take a couple days and a couple dozen draws for it to loosen up right. However, even my wife, who is completely ambivalent about anything gun related, including her husband, looked at it and said 'That's beautiful'.
     
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  16. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    So 9mm vs .45.

    What do?
     
  17. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    You'll need to state your intended use case (range fun? self-defense?) and your local restrictions (mag cap? hollow points?) before we can even begin to meaningfully approach that topic...
     
  18. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Self defense, no restrictions.
     
  19. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    With a well designed hollow-point 9mm round, the difference in performance between the two in human flesh is very comparable. The real differentiators between the two are the capacity and characteristics of the guns that shoot them. So if you are a civilian shooter, go with whichever you shoot better.

    The calculus is a little different for the military, because the Geneva Convention severely curtails the use of hollow-point ammunition. If you are stuck with ball, 9mm penetrates more but tends to create a smaller wound channel. 9mm ball tends to zip right on through people, instead of sticking around to impart all that kinetic energy. .45 ACP is a much bigger bullet moving at a much slower speed. When it hits something, the energy component from velocity tends to bleed off very quickly into the object it has struck. Mass becomes the dominant factor in it's ability to impart damage. It moves slower through the body, imparting more of that energy in breaking bones and creating internal trauma. Being shot with either will most likely kill you. The .45 ACP will let you know it faster.

    The flip side of the .45 ACP Ball's advantages in trauma is the issue of capacity and recoil. 9mm handguns have a lot more capacity, and 9mm recoils less. So if you have to take an 18 year old who has never shot a gun outside of 'Call of Duty', you can get them on target faster and give them more opportunity to hit then with the .45. No matter how awesome the .45 ACP might be, it is way less effective then the 9mm when it misses the target.

    Our military has gone back and forth over the issue as operational needs have changed, although it looks like the 9mm is winning. When the Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) started engaging in urban combat and house clearing activities in Afganistan and Iraq, the 1911 in .45 ACP made a comeback. The Marines wanted a round that would cause the insurgents to give up the fight quicker when they had been shot. However, outside of those more specialized units, the rest of our Armed Forces stuck with the 9mm. And the MEU itself went back to the 9mm, specifically the Glock 19, as their role changed and they wanted something more concealable, durable, and with higher capacity for sustained handgun combat.

    All of which is to say that for you and me, it really makes no difference. Go with whichever gun you are more likely to hit somebody with in a given circumstance. I personally switch between the 1911 and the Glock 19 all the time for carry, depending on what activities I am doing and which gun would be more suited for a particular day's events.
     
  20. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    I'd suggest 9x19mm if there's no mag cap restrictions. Modern hollow points are great at what they do and partially negate the .45ACP advantage.

    The caveat for 9x19mm is that most people train with cheaper FMJ and load their carry gun with JHP when they take it out without actually making sure it cycles properly.
    So I'd strongly suggest that you practice a bit with your carry load, even if it's expensive, to make sure your gun works as you expect it to with it.