The Guns and Ammo Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Kalessin, May 4, 2006.

  1. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Won't FMJ to a vital fuck you up anyway? Its not as if switching to hollowpoints will make someone drop to the ground 'that' much faster. D;
     
  2. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Sure. If you get hit in a vital organ, you will die. You may even drop right then, and immediately stop being a threat. Or you might live long enough to send a couple rounds my way before you shuffle off.

    A well designed hollow-point increases the odds of hitting that vital area by staying in the body longer and with a less predictable path that creates more tissue trauma.
     
  3. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    9x19mm FMJs have a tendency to hugely overpenetrate unless they hit bone. So if you want to shoot both the thug and his buddy behind him, be my guest. But it may very well be the thug and the kid in the house behind him...

    FMJs make little sense for self-defense unless you expect to shoot people with light (flexible) body armor.
    Hollow points increase the likelihood of hitting a vital part by (potentially) increasing the diameter of the round when it hits its target and makes overpenetration less an issue. It also dumps more energy into the body you shoot (although the practical use of this is up to debate).

    I don't see any reason why you would not use hollow points in a self-defense gun. The only downsides of these are price and potential feeding issues in badly designed guns.

    Keep in mind that 115gr or 124gr 9x19 FMJs are known to overpenetrate worse than .223Rem 55gr FMJs... Which also partially explains why lots of SWAT units moved from MP5 style SMGs to AR15 style carbines.
     
  4. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    What gun would you use against a seven foot tall armoured quadruped with regenerative properties?
     
  5. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    One from Star Trek, I suppose.
     
  6. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
     
  7. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Damn those are out of my pocket...

    More seriously, as an Aussie who has fired a .22lr at most, what is an all round 'good gun'?
     
  8. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    That was totally going to be my follow-up line.
    -
    If you still live in Australia, I have no idea what is even available to you.
     
  9. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    I think that Australia even restricts 9x19, so you're best off gathering some legal information before continuing this conversation.
     
  10. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    I realize I have been on the same theme for a while, but I just got back a 10mm Delta I sent to Nighthawk for a little work.

    Before:


    After:


    This was a little... pricey. I could have bought another 10mm Nighthawk for what I paid to have the Delta worked over. But I don't regret it. The Delta has some history behind it as one of the first 10mm 1911s, not to mention a Colt. However, I never liked it very much in it's original form, and I shot it very poorly. Now I have the Delta that Colt should have made, and I am very happy with it.

    Here she is with her two younger Delta sisters and her 10mm Nighthawk cousin:
     
  11. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Was the Delta Elite you sent in to work over a first gen or second gen?
     
  12. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    All of mine are second gen, though the other two are part of the XE series which came out in 2016. In all honesty, I like the way the first gen late 80s models look a little better, with the narrow but angled serrations and the old school Colt bluing. But they are rare birds around here.

    I also think I have finally hit 10mm saturation. It is still my favorite caliber, but I looked at my pile of 10mm guns and thought 'Yep, that's enough.' I've been eyeing the Nighthawk'd Hi Power and the new Wilson EDX X9, both of which are in 9mm. The X9 is getting a lot of attention right now, as a blend of Glock capacity and form factor with a 1911 trigger and safety. It's not the most aesthetically appealing gun Wilson has ever put out, and it costs about five times what my Glock 19 did, but people really seem to like it. The Hi Power I am considering because it is going to be discontinued domestically, and I've never owned one.
     
  13. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Although better looking, the first gen Delta Elites had a reputation for beating themselves to death if you used full power ammo through them and didn't reinforce the components. So it's probably for the best.

    As for the high power, I was considering getting an SFS one, just because. The HP is a classic and SFS is just ridiculously overengineered. A technical answer to a mental problem. So right up my alley. ;)
     
  14. Carib FMJ

    Carib FMJ Nuka-Cola Chaser

    Nov 8, 2003

    Also there are a lot of options with 9x19mm. The Russians pump out a lot of low cost ammo. The wolf brand is like the Cosco on ammunition. And considering the various 9mm pistols I have owned (GLOCKS and the like) I have not had a lot of issues. Maybe a dozen stovepipes over a couple thousand rounds and only two that failed to fire due to bad primers.

    A lot of European companies as well as south american companies churn out a lot of ammo.
     
  15. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Sure, but again, be careful to also train with the ammo you're going to use for self-defense. Cheap Wolf FMJs range fodder might feed great, but your super fancy $3 per shot super expanding hollow points you use for self-defense might not work quite as well.
     
  16. Carib FMJ

    Carib FMJ Nuka-Cola Chaser

    Nov 8, 2003
    I would never suggest Wolf as self defense ammo. That's plinking. Get good self-defense from proven vendors, train with those - but the better self defense, more expensive. I usually keep more plinking ammo than self defense. My ratio of Self defense ammo is usually 2:10 of plinking ammo which varies from Sellier & Bellot, Serbian made Priv Partizan ammo (which is good brass) and wolf if I just want to shoot. I have Federal Hydra-Shok for my self defense and daily carry. It comes down to the carrier and his preference. Some will swear by this and others swear by that. Know your gun.
     
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  17. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Carib, good to see you back here.

    I was unaware of the SFS system, and learned something new. Though I am not inclined to give up cocked & locked on a 1911 I carry, it really does sound like a better system for concealed carry with a High Power. I will have to look around and see how obtainable the SFS models are.

    As to first vs. second gen Deltas, I definitely have greater trust in the frame and the dual recoil spring set-up, but I have much less trust in the new Delta's insane barrel throating. The first gens didn't have much chamber support to begin with. Colt is pretty much the only 10mm 1911 maker left who decided to continue foregoing the ramped barrel, and they've doubled down on the throating with the new barrels. I've never seen so much unsupported chamber on a 10mm gun. They even have Glock beat.



    Compare to the chamber support of a stock Kimber 10mm:


    My custom Delta now has a ramped and supported Nighthawk barrel. I normally run PPU's soft 180gr JHP, so in day to day use, the Delta's don't pose a particular risk. But I wouldn't run my back-country loadings through them, nor would I even be inclined to run Norma spec loadings, such as the excellent Sig V-Crown Elite. Unless I decide to send the other two off eventually, they are mostly relegated to the range toy category for the foreseeable future.
     
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  18. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    SFS is kinda neat, but it's a gimmick. But I like it purely from an engineering point of view.

    As for not fully supporting a 10mm Auto, that's just asking for trouble. I'd only run soft loads with thick casewalls through that too, yeah.
     
  19. Carib FMJ

    Carib FMJ Nuka-Cola Chaser

    Nov 8, 2003
    Completed.jpg Broken Down.jpg And to shift the subject....

    My AR-15 Frankenstein

    UPPER RECEIVER
    -Barrel, 16.1" Rainier Arms Mountain Series CHF, 1:7 (5.56/.223 REM
    -Silcernco Trifecta Flashider
    -Spikes Tactical Upper Receiver
    -Rail System: Geissele 13" SMR MK8
    -Bravo Company Gunfighter Charging Handle Medium
    -FailZero Nickle Boron M16 Bolt Carrier Group


    LOWER RECEIVER
    -Spikes Tactical Crusader Lower Receiver
    -BCM Battle NiB Trigger Group (Mil-spec)
    -CMMG lower parts
    -Noveseke Takedown Pins
    -LMT Heavy Buffer
    -LMT Sopmod Stock (Cerakoted) "I carried this in a deployment"
    -LMT buffer tube
    -LMT Castle nut
    -Magpul MOE Grip (black)


    Magpul PRO Front Sight
    Magpul PRO LR Rear Sight
    Eotech 553 HWS (two deployments)
     
  20. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Franken-gun right down to the pins. That's impressive. It's really the pins that got me; I've mixed a lot of different parts in a build before, but I've always used the pins that came with the lower parts kit.

    Nice parts selection, though. I am a fan of everything but the Spike's Tactical gear, and even that is based on a personal loathing for 'Spike' and not an indictment of his branded gear.

    The real question is how does she shoot for you?