The Guns and Ammo Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Kalessin, May 4, 2006.

  1. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Most of the value is tied up in just three of the guns. In fact, I think the other nine together about equal the big three. The advantages of being old and gainfully employed for a long time.

    Taking this pin shooting tonight. Because I won the last two matches, I am barred from taking home prize money for the next month. Which is actually nice, because it takes the pressure off and lets me get some trigger time with guns that are less competitive. I've got eight pins, and usually depend on my 10 round mags for my 10mm to give me a margin of forgiveness before a reload. With the Sig, I can't afford to miss against a talented shooter.


    To early and too few details for me to feel comfortable speculating, or even voicing an opinion beyond it being a tragedy and extending my sympathy to the victims and their families.
     
  2. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Wonder how easy it is to obtain full auto assault rifles or machine guns in the US? If even a 'regular' guy like that was able to get one, there has to be quite a lot of hardware in the markets. Or is Vegas a central place to score some full auto stuff?

    And if there's full auto stuff then what else is out there for sale? Missiles? SAM's? AT-rockets? Mines? Etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Don't get crazy, explosives are heavily regulated, you can't simply get a SCUT missile or a rocket or bomb or what ever in the next gun shop. Second, automatic weapons as far as I remember are a bit complicated. Apparantly you can get them in a few states, but only if they are before 1986 or something like that. I am not sure about the exact date.

    Here is a little info:

    Which assault rifles are legal for US citizens to purchase?

    The US Army defines an assault rifle as follows:

    “Assault rifles are short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges. Assault rifles have mild recoil characteristics and, because of this, are capable of delivering effective full-automatic fire at ranges up to 300 meters."

    Small Arms Identification and Operations Guide – Eurasian Communist Countries, pg 100 para 90

    Real assault rifles are capable of automatic firing. Therefore, they are regulated by the federal government as machine guns under the Federal Firearms Act of 1934 and the completely misnamed Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986. The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act entirely banned the new manufacture or importation of automatic weapons for civilian use. That left roughly 150,000 registered automatic weapons in private ownership and eligible for transfer between individuals. The transfer of such weapons is handled by the ATF's NFA branch. Basically, anyone wanting to legally own a fully automatic weapon needs $15,000 to over $40,000 to buy a weapon from an already licensed owner willing to sell one of theirs, plus pay a $200 federal transfer tax, plus pass a background investigation of National Agency Check with 10-point fingerprinting.

    So the answer to the original question:

    Any assault rifle that was in the US before May 18, 1986 that is registered with the federal government and owned by a licensed owner willing to sell theirs. The purchaser must first pass all of the federal requirements to qualify to become a licensed owner. Such weapons are so rare, old (at least 31 years old), and expensive that they are strictly luxury collectible items for the very wealthy.

    So it doesn't seem to me that getting a fully automated weapon is the easiest thing to get legaly.

    I do think the US needs to fix their gun problem, which is quite serious an they HAVE to change their gun laws. But runing around making false statements, isn't going to help anyone.

    Apparantly what some people do, but don't quote me on that, is that they use conversions by changing semi-automatic firearms in to full auto. How often that happens though? I don't know.

    *Besides, this really isn't the topic to discuss this you're barking at the wrong tree dude.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  4. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    Jul 7, 2014
    The most common theory I've heard about the LV shooter says that they were either using a bumpfire stock (basically allowing you to tap the firing mechanism just right so that it fires faster than usual) or a crank-powered firing mechanic on an AR-15.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    crank powered AR-15? What the hell ...

     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    Pretty steampunk:ish kind of looking.

    Well Crni it is a part of the 'gun package'. The 'nice' gun hobbyists don't magically overrule the 'bad' gun hobbyists. NRA is the puppet master, together with the GOP.
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, but you're pissing at the wind if you start a "gunz are evil!" discussion in here. Open a topic discussing gun rights and gun viollence, if you so desperately need to talk about it, and see who's chiming in. This is a gun appreciation treat after all. It's like as if you would go to a forum where they discuss tanks, their qualities and technology and what design they like the most and you suddenly want to start a conversation about how evil and bad those things are. It simply makes you look like an asshole who's looking for starting trouble for no other reason but to be controversial - no offense meant, I have no clue what your intentions are, I am just telling you what it looks like.

    Again, I am all for stronger gun laws, but I am not waving my dick around here.
     
  8. TorontRayne

    TorontRayne Misanthropic God of Rations Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Keep all of that bullshit out of this thread or I'll start giving you spanking. Seriously. Go make another thread for that shit.
     
  9. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    We've had gun law debates in this thread before and they invariably turned to shit. So knock if off before I vat your posts.

    A bit late, but it's obvious from the changing cadence of fire that he used a slidefire/bumpfire stock or a handcrank at some point.
    He may have had actual fully automatic weapons, but most of the fire seems to have come from semi automatic rifles.

    From the noise, I'd say it were mostly AR15s (slidefire) and possibly some AKs?
    Reports say he had 23 firearms in his hotel room, so I'm sure we'll hear all about it soon.

    The USA has a NFA registry which was closed for automatic firearms in 1986. Guns registered before this date are legal to own & transfer. These guns are very expensive.

    You should note that it's rather trivial for anyone with half a brain to convert a firearm from semi-auto to full auto. Famously, an FN FAL can be converted using something as trivial as a matchstick.
    The problem of converting a weapon to full auto is safety. But if you only want to continuously dump rounds into a target, you can simply modify the sear and it'll be fine.

    By the way, if you build a gun from scratch wasteland style, it's easier to make it full auto than semi auto.

    Yes, you can buy grenade launchers etc. These are "destructive devices". To legally purchase the ammo, you're talking about a $200 tax stamp PER ROUND.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. Mak

    Mak The Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah!

    Aug 22, 2016
    He was a Millionaire, right?
    Besides, Jihadists can get full autos in the EU. If they wanted. But they don't need to. Trucks, knives, etc.
     
  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dark side in da houssah

    Nov 22, 2009
    This issue is 'haram'/'verboten' in this thread. :sad:
     
  12. Mak

    Mak The Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah!

    Aug 22, 2016
    Ah, that's actually justified I think. Thread's supposed to be for talking about guns, not talking about gun politics. Apologies.
     
  13. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    I got two stamps back... one last monday for the HK53 clone.


    ASOne with AAC illusion.jpg 22243913_896190137204828_976500950_o.jpg
     
  14. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Neat.

    I've always had something for a HK53 myself. It's the first true SWAT carbine in my eyes, which makes it neat. But that stock just looks bad to me (although it's probably way more practical than the original).

    For real "practical use", I wouldn't want it due to the way it loads and the lack of automatic bolt hold open on empty.
     
  15. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    The side folding stock is basically the same as what they went to with the MP5s. Its much more comfortable than the telescoping stocks. That is a US Choate stock not some random chinese stock. The loading is not so bad, it rocks like an AK and it has both the button and paddle mag release.
     
  16. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    You mean the MP5K PDWs. Yes, I know of them, but the sliding stock is still the "real stock" for me when it comes to these weapons, with the solid stock as a close second.

    Sure, but you don't buy that specific weapon for its practicality. ;)

    I don't mean those controls. I'm more annoyed with the manual lockback, loading of the mag & then HKslappin' the bolt handle to release. Compared to more modern manual of arms which use an automatic bolt hold open, that's quite contrived.
     
  17. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    All good points. I bought it because I wanted it. I am still waiting on a stamp for the .308 version- even less practical ;-)

     
  18. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    I guess that the HK51 makes for efficient arm hair removal... :P
     
  19. JohnnyEgo

    JohnnyEgo Mostly Harmless

    Oct 22, 2007
    Beautiful 53 clone. I'd love to have one myself, but I've never gotten round to it. I've been meaning to SBR one of my SP5Ks for nearly a year now, and still haven't done that, either. However, my local club is setting up a match for the pistol caliber carbine (PCC) division of USPSA, so I might just need to get in gear. I'll probably run my shorty 9mm AR in the meantime.
     
  20. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    I really want a 9mm HK clone (will probably get a zenith and SBR it) but they were way more expensive than the 5.56 and .308 versions (by hundreds of dollars). The 5.56 was $200 less and the .308 was $500 less than a 9mm Zenith (the Zenith itself is also way less than the new H&K made ones)


    WPD