The Neo-Liberals ...

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    @MutantScalper

    What are you trying to get at here? That government should control how often the banks lend, how often big or small loans are given, etc?

    It seems like the biggest thing about 'micro finance', is that the lender is supposed to be Joe Plebe. Now that sounds nice but very valid issues have been brought up, like the trustworthiness of mico financiers, as they have no backing from the FDIC and are not under ANY form of regulation.

    @Crni Vuk

    Yea, I have brought this up already. The biggest issue about the decline of the manufacturing industry in the states is simply this, America is the empire and citizens of the empire do not manufacture things. The citizens of the empire, CONSUME, things. We also like the things that we consume to be CHEAP. The problem is however, Americans do not WORK for CHEAP, hence, things produced in America by Americans, cannot be cheap. This is the conundrum. The Trump rhetoric about bringing back manufacturing is no different than the type of daydreaming Bernie Sanders is guilty of.
     
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Let's face it, we need a technocratic element. A Fourth Estate, but official, and not journalists but scientists and engineers. An independent council of proven scientists and engineers that has veto powers in the legislative branch, because the legislative is made up of professional politicians removed from reality and without a vision for the future (or, if they have it, it's a retarded pipe dream made from shite and ideology). This council needs to be elected from a group of people carefully chosen for their expertise in all the relevant technical and scientific fields, representatives of research and development and the middle class tradesmen. The people on this council are rotated out of service every few years to keep them from becoming like the rest of the professional politicians.
    We need rational people with open eyes to have more influence if we want to make actual progress.
    It's an undemocratic element, yes. But it is also a meritocratic element that we desperately need.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You could say, they tried at least something like that.

    If I remember correctly, but I could be wrong on this, one of the reasons why they established so many independed and government funded academic insitutions and research centers was to actually have something that could tell you accuratly what the facts are on certain topics, in other words giving advice to politicans who simply can not know everything.

    The National Acadamy of Sciences.

    Founded in 1863 as a result of an Act of Congress that was approved by Abraham Lincoln, the NAS is charged with "providing independent, objective advice to the nation on matters related to science and technology. … to provide scientific advice to the government 'whenever called upon' by any government department. The Academy receives no compensation from the government for its services."[1]
    Well, but what are they going to do, if they and their research simply gets ignored ... infact there is an growing group of people that actually loath intelectualism, science and scientists. I agree, there are many intelectual idiots out there, but just because scientists act smug, doesn't mean they are. Besides, waaaay to much stuff today gets a pass as 'scientific' even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific community. But someone, somewhere, said at some point, that there is a study - which also has no meaning, beacuse it was not a real study, and suddenly it's used as a claim for some article.
     
  4. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, with "scientists and engineers from relevant technical fields" I excluded those postmodern morons. Hard science based on evidence is what we need, not neomarxist politics with a thin veneer of scientific jargon.

    Inb4 "but dem climate change scientists also": Yes, that also needs to be evaluated without any ideological lens if policies are made around that.

    Looks like I need to form a new technocratic party to implement this.
     
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  5. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    It depends really on what the government is supplementing actually. There's already something produced locally by Americans which the government foots a massive amount of the bill of in order to make sure Americans still produce it and produce it regularly despite it not honestly being profitable by itself.

    Food.
     
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You know what's awesome? If America destroys the economies of others, it's called free market. If others do it to America, it's vulture capitalism.
     
  7. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    Well, food makes sense as it is the 'bread', in the 'bread and circuses'.

    I kind of like the idea of a meritocracy/technocracy but the issue then would be how to constantly switch people out as those at the top of the field represent a miniscule portion of the population for a reason. Eventually, we would end up in a situation where not enough experts are around so we are going to have to abolish those term limits.

    You also have to deal with the issue of bias as well.

    You also have to deal with the same problems we have now, a leadership class that seems far removed from the likes of Joe Plebe. Pragmatism would be just one example. The world has too many damned people, the cold, calculating logic of the technocrats, would be a reduction in population. Something that sounds easy on paper may not be all that easy to implement in reality.

    Then you have to figure out how to handle the disagreements between experts as sometimes, two experts, on the same side of a topic, can still disagree vastly about things.

    It seems as if we all run into the same dilemma, everything is always going to be flawed in some manner. We just have to choose the lesser of the two evils.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  8. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Ironically, luxury seems to be the best way to cause people to want to have less children.

    Japan has one of the best lifestyles in the world and it's suffering an actual reduction in the population because the families are only having one child or no children at all.

    America and other First World nations also have lesser populations.

    In part because of better sex ed but mostly because it seems people just don't have as many kids when living urbanized lifestyles.
     
  9. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    I think religion plays a big part as well. Most religion frowns upon birth control and abortion as it is only gods right to end a life, or some such thing. We in the west, seem to have cut a great deal of religion out of our daily lives but not so much for other countriies.
     
  10. Plzstandbuy

    Plzstandbuy Lonely Drifter

    Dec 7, 2015
    Honestly I could see the rich owning classes just living in automated utopia where the now unemployable masses are simply killed off by machines like in the future war in Terminator.
     
  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dozy northern git

    Nov 22, 2009
    Iceland threw their criminal bankers in prison. They're doing very well today (Iceland, not the bankers).
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  12. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    @MutantScalper

    Ok, again, what are you trying to say when you bring up micro financing?

    Also, what does the above have to do with micro financing?
     
  13. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dozy northern git

    Nov 22, 2009
    You're the one sucking bankers wang here, just thought I'd return you to the ground for a sec. Microfinancing can work well even in super poor nations like the developing nations. Don't see why they couldn't work in little bit more developed nations.

    All this "banks/bankers are untouchable" is BS.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am saying this not because I hate americans, because I actually like them. But, Americans are really super special in this part.

    Like, they are the only one that will accept limitations (like those coming from poverty), as long you sell it them as 'choice' and 'freedom'. Like the free market, companies are supoosed to do what ever they want! Banks shouln't be regulated! Regulations are always bad! Restrictions due to climate change are hurting the economy! Less government in everything equalls more freedom in everything else!
    Little do people realize that there is never ever a rule or law that states a free market always generates more choices or freedom for the average people.

    Then the less rich would become the new 'poor'.
     
  15. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Ninja Lurker

    Oct 27, 2003
    @MutantScalper

    Sucking bankers wangs? I am one of those conservatives who believes in Glass-Steagall. I also am for a tax on financial speculation, which Gramm-Leach-Billey, pretty much allowed banks to do again. Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking?

    Yea, I know the definition of micro financing. I am asking YOU the question, Was there anything more to your post than just telling people micro financing exists? Please speak your mind or cut it out with the shit posts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
  17. GlutinousRice

    GlutinousRice Ne travaillez jamais

    Nov 7, 2015
    To fucking sleepy to read 17 pages of pure condensed autism on the potential social danger of a fully automated globalized society, which is incidentally my favourite subject of discussion and nobody mentioned Luddism, or Uncle Kaczynski aka Unabomber. I guess that makes me the biggest autist in the room (no offence intended).

    Relevant link in my signature to his manifest titled "Industrial Society and it's Future" (just around 35000 words).
     
  18. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Oct 26, 2016
    Yes, the self-aware schizophrenic that sent package bombs to Universities and Airlines will provide much needed insight and nuance into a deeply complex topic.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    So, what's your highest IQ guys?



    Hmmm, curious what the Neo-Con-Capitalist idea to that is. I know ... work ... harder.