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Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Wasteland Wanderer, Apr 14, 2017.
I actually prefer the Bethesda desig-
The quote said that Cait could probably keep up in a drinking contest and I replied that she wouldn't stand a chance against Cass ... in a drinking contest.
What does that have to do with a 9 foot tall lizard or a giant green rage monster?
I can't help but imagine a drinking contest between Cait, Cass, a Deathclaw and a Super Mutant.
Cait, Cass, a Deathclaw and a Super Mutant walk into a bar
At least all of them had unique mechanics which required you to change your play style a little bit. One problem with the previous games was that all enemies behaved the same and could be handled using the same methods. The only amount of change you could do is swap your weapon or ammo type, but ultimately combat was in my opinion much more repetitive.
I don't really care if they changed the lore a little bit or took inspiration from other games, if we get more varied enemies.
Changing the lore is usually a biggie with me, but if done right I'm ok with it. For example if we're told the Mirelurks in the Commonwealth are different due to *insert plausible reason here* then I can buy that. Inspiration is fine but I have to admit Bethesda doesn't have a good track record when it comes to taking things from other games (or even mods).
Deathclaws using more intelligent tactics is a good idea, but it didn't amount to much in Fallout 4 beyond throwing cars and strafing somewhat ineffectively. Imagine if you only encountered Deathclaws rarely, yet when you do you don't just fight head on but it hides, it ambushes, maybe even tricks you.
What mechanics? Its just 'shoot them in the face until they keel over'.
There aren't any actual armour mechanics, so everything is dealt with the same, maximum DPS.
As much as I would like to see intelligent monsters and even more advanced mechanics, we have to remember that these are big, open world FPS RPGs. There's only so much time for these monsters to be developed and the engine can only tolerate so many scripts before it goes tits up. Maybe in the future when they finally make a new engine and stop expecting from their software engineers to keep pushing this old dog of an engine. Fallout: New Vegas had the same problems, even if the rest of the game was done right.
I see the mechanics of most enemies in Fallout 4 as improvements from the previous games and I think Bethesda should be given credit, even if they were inspired by another game or if they are not identical to these other monsters in X game from the franchise. The gaming industry is based on passed experience. It wasn't very long ago when people called FPS games "DOOM clones". Nothing wrong with taking a mechanic which works in another game and applying it in your game. Frankly, I am tired of people claiming "this is a blatant copy of this other thing which came before it". If it works, use it, and make your game unique through the narrative and the themes it explores.
If anything, I think Bethesda should stop trying to reinvent the wheel and add
Best open world FPS IMO is STALKER.
Large variety of mutants, different mechanics with them (Dogs are blind! But can hear well). etc/
My point exactly. You have games which focus on those mechanics. You can't have everything in a game, as much as Bethesda or the fans would like that.
Even the monsters in excellent games like the Witcher 3 can be approached in so many ways, because there are all of these other systems in place. Game development is already an incredibly long process. You have to understand what to focus on and get that right. We can look at New Vegas for example, in which the developers focused on the quests, the NPCs and we can look at Fallout 4 in which the developers focused on crafting and settlement building. Mind you, these were both systems which were requested by the fans, who most of the time don't know what they really want or somehow expected a game which focused on all of the aspects that made the previous games good AND this new crafting and settlement building. This is not how game development works - you have to stop at some point and get paid. There's only so much time.
It's disrespectful to suggest that the developers at Bethesda are lazy. A lot of effort was put in the game, just not at the right places.
Textures inferior to mods from 2009.
Designs stolen from dozens of sources, and still look like garbage.
No dialogue (no, 4 options which are all 'yes' isn't dialogue).
Preston Garvey (Instant -100 points)
Breaking lore EVERYWHERE.
They put no fucking effort into the game.
It looks like something Obsidian could shit out in 4 months if given money.
Fallout 4, 7 years of development vs. Fallout: New Vegas, 18 months of development.
Not to mention they had to steal a quest mod's idea (Autumn Leaves), and the fact that they got some help from id Software with the gunplay (which means they didn't actually improved upon themselves, AND we can see how fucking half-assed the rest of the game's aspect).... yeah, not lazy at all.
Pray tell how does settlement building make Fallout 4 unique?
EDIT: @Black Angel's beaten me to it. Bethesda had seven years whilst Obsidian had eighteen months, yet Obsidian created a far superior game. Going to your first point of "Maybe in the future when they finally make a new engine and stop expecting from their software engineers to keep pushing this old dog of an engine", why couldn't they have done that in the seven years they were working on it?
I never said all of the developers were hardworking. I think most of their writers should be fired and replaced by people with actual talent. And, yeah, there were many bad design choices. But who makes those choices? Todd Howard? Pagliarulo? Certainly, not Joe the animation artist, or Henry the concept artist, or Bob the software engineer. (made up names I do not work at Bethesda )
Obsidian could never "shit out" Fallout 4 in 4 months. Not when it was working on NV and especially not now. Fallout 4 is a BIG game - too big. It has more systems than any other game in the franchise. They don't work exceptionally well and they sometimes work against each other, but they are there and they took a lot of time to develop.
I don't know how much you know about the current situation in Obsidian, but in their current form they couldn't even dream to make a game as big as New Vegas. And with that game they already had a solid base provided by Bethesda. Tyranny is a tiny, tiny game compared to Fallout 4. That doesn't mean it's a worse game, but you can't go making general statements about the employees in any of the two companies.
Excluding development hell, a bunch of drunk Ukranians made STALKER.
Obsidian can make Fallout 4 within six months.
I doubt they would make it within six months. However if they were the ones who made Fallout 4 with seven years of development and Bethesda's budget who knows what we could have got.
We should really try and find more things Fallout 4 did right...erm...
Give them the textures and models firsthand, like with a fair amount of NV, and I bet they could.
The systems of Fallout 4 are so stupidly simple, its laughable.
It enlivened NMA a bit and redpilled some of the bethesda fans.
Honestly, since Skyrim I have been disapointed with Bethesda, although it was only within like...5 years that my eyes were opened to how garbage modern games are.
Dwarf Fortress really did a toll on me...
Except that's not the point I want to make. The point is Bethesda these days are talentless hacks. Except for their upper brass/the face of their team like Todd and Hines who's actually good at making people giving them money with less and less effort on making games. But if you really, REALLY think about it, their game's aspects are nothing good when compared to the said aspect of other game. People only loved it because of that unique (and actually disconnected) mix of the aspects they've taken from other games, and they kinda succeeded in the market because there's really no competition in making that kind of game; a mishmash of different aspect thrown into one bowl, each were half-assed when made, but gave off some impression that the game is big.
Big, but without any substance and depth in it.
Settlement building and management
Some combat mechanics, like covers and enemy's mechanic (like that stupid mutation)
Did I forgot something? I haven't played the game, so I wouldn't know. All of these, at the cost of proper, actual RPG mechanics, such as
Skills, and the mechanics based on it like Repair and such
Proper dialogues and narrative branching based on it
The two things sacrificed were the staple and most important thing about the franchise, for those three things that were rather trivial or something minor that shouldn't really need any sacrifices. From what I've heard, New Vegas settlement mods actually had extra quests tying the settlements made with the rest of the gameworld (like making the factions you sided with wanting to trade with your settlement), and meanwhile there's not much to see in Commonwealth Wasteland because there's not much major settlements and you barely had quests tying your settlement with the rest of the Wasteland.
Weapon mods already existed since New Vegas and, frankly, I don't see how Fallout 4's more nuanced or anything than NV's. Maybe because there are much, MUCH more weapon models in NV.
Still more reactivity and RPG content than anything Bethesda made post-Morrowind.