Tyranny Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Ragemage, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    I found it a bit weak, yeah. I can believe the Dinasty established by a sort of magical oath, but discovering that should have been a bit harder or better explained.
    Still, i didn't dare to kill the baby, not even by save scummin' it
     
  2. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Started a second run, now as independent/rebel (though not overtly against Kyros yet). Rallying the rebels to my banner. Seems more rewarding so far, but it's also more of a pain in the ass to get the Vendrien Guard to fall in with you. You have to bend over backwards and then they propose something to you as if it's a novel idea and not something you already figured out ages ago.

    For the life of me I cannot figure out why they would force you to kill the Iron Broad, though I took satisfaction from kicking Fifth Eye off the Spire. Fuck you, you filthy savage.
    Perspective? This is pretty much all regurgitating what NPCs already tell you ingame? Hardly a new point of view. A lot of NPCs seem to concur. What is unclear is the endgame.

    the tl;dr:
    Kyros sent two incompatible armies to conquer the last realms, and sent his rather ineffective/inconsequential Adjudicator to make sure minor spats are dealt with but that the situation will eventually boil over. Meanwhile Kyros kept the (only other mentioned/famous) elder "war" Archon behind which suppressed her entire armies after it was no longer needed. "Pox" (Archon of Pestilence & Disease) gets rid of her minions after victory is achieved, and as a result is no issue in peace time (unlike say the Scarlet Chorus).
    Kyros would no doubt be glad to get rid of Nerat because he's a highly instable backstabber. It's likely Kyros also wanted to get rid of Ashe, as over time his resolve has started failing. But Tunon & his fatebinders? Seems like collateral damage to ensure that the pot eventually boils over.
    But let's not forget treasonous Cairn (Archon of Stone) and Sirin (Archon of Song) who once tried to openly kill Kyros.
    Good riddance to all, clearly.

    Killed them both (on principle, because the alternative felt like a cop-out) & still got Ashe to bend the knee willingly.
     
  3. eissa

    eissa Altáriel, Lady of Radiant Garland

    Jan 7, 2016
    Actually I think it's part of the nature of magic/archon in that world. People and things become what they are believed to be. Sorta like immaterium from warhammer, and not to mention the edict of kyros always have specific clauses that act both as commandment and failsafe. Since apparantly kyros couldn't create edict and destruct it at her will.
     
  4. Draitex

    Draitex Northern Beast from the Swedish tundra

    Aug 5, 2016
    That Xanatos Gambit as he reffered to occured to me aswell, Kyros would succesfully unite tiersmen and also other realms against the threat of a new overlord.
    Kyros offers a chance to get rid of the Edicts, but who is to say that the new Overlord will?

    but whilst i very much agree, about the tonal shift...cause there is a huge one, you go from Servant to Master in a relative short time.

    It felt like a HUGE payoff, ...but a payoff i really couldn't enjoy, due to the game's abrupt ending.

    I'd have Kyros lay siege to all spires, and making them unavailible, and the act 4 would be about either invading the north, or amass all armies and factions to unite against Kyros forces, or kill off the factions to prevent them interfering with you.

    And this time around when you reclaim the spires, it wouldn't be oldwall battles again (perhaps find a way to use the bane against Kyros forces inside the oldwalls but nothing more.), it'd be more like Army VS Army (they could use the conquest mechanic again maybe and then let the battles play out against them, and depending on your numbers, tactics and loyalty you might be succesful, or pay a heavy price for 1 spire)

    Let's say the Sunset spire.

    You can use Disfavored to crush Kyros forces with A/B/C attack modes and tactics, and you'd have like..a counter of your army size, and if you make bad choices or have a small army or low loyalty you will have some hardships reclaiming the spire, perhaps you'd need to negotiate with old enemies, or go in yourself and clean up.


    and if your loyalty is lacking in perhaps Bronze Brotherhood or beastmen, they'd unite with Kyros to kill off your forces unless you deal with them first.

    etc etc etc, just top of my head stuff.


    and in the end you would reclaim the mountain spire, depending on your amry size, your future rule and ending will be affected.

    if your army is close to extinct that would mean Kyros forces retreat, but would later return to kill you.

    if your army is huge, then you will establish your rule as Overlord over the tiers and south, and Kyros would either let you be, or you could unite in an agreement, or you'd march on the north.

    if your army is...medium sized, that means you might have to come to either an agreement with Kyros, or surrender, or try to hold, but your rule wouldn't be as enforced giving you a more gray ending.

    and all these endings would have you meet with Kyros on the top of the spire for some last dialouges and choices that affects the ending.


    just something i thought of.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  5. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Seems like the "rebel/independent" path is a lot more buggy & incomplete than the Disfavored one...

    I've got people praising me for stuff I didn't do yet (Vendrien Guard protecting Lethian's Crossing) and dialogue options to unite the rebels in name of Tunon's Justice to bring order to the South seem entirely unavailable. The only thing you can do is ask people to join you as you rise up against Kyros.

    Shame. Damn shame.
     
  6. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    I didn't encounter any dialogue bugs like this during my Independent run, but what I will say is
    You have the option to make the Rebellion bend their knee to you when you first join up with them, by making them swear fealty instead of working alongside them. I would imagine this would help later on when Tunon starts getting heavily involved. For that matter if you're looking to join up with Tunon and do a pro-Tunon type run, the best way to go is Independent as a lot of the choices favor neither the Disfavored or the Scarlet Chorus but DO help Tunon out. In my Independent run Tunon ended up being one of my best friends.

    I'll also point out a lot of what people calls "SJW" pandering could be contributed to the Tiers' more tribal ways of thinking. The whole thing with women owning the land while men own the sea is part of their legends and mythology/religion. Kyros wants to do away with this, and as it says in the very first description we see involving the genders on character creation, it says men and women have equal opportunities under Kyros, while not so under the Tiers. So if you really want to do an "uncuckening" or whatever you want to call it, just side with Kyros and then men will be able to own property too.

    As for the Beastwomen, while for the most part females are seen as the dominant/leader sex, (as is what happened in a lot of Native American tribes for an IRL example) they care more about how you do in battle and how well you can fight than anything else. For example, you can get the Stonestalker Tribe and Kills-In-Shadow to
    swear loyalty to you and make you their leader even if you're a male

    I also did a review of Tyranny based off my Independent run since I finished the game last night, you can read it here:

    http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/tyranny-review-by-ragemage.208302/
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  7. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Well since no one's talked about this, I noticed a small feature in the options menu while looking around for what I can and cannot have enabled during an Iron Man run. (going Disfavored Iron Man style because I thought it would be the most fitting way to play Disfavored. Graven Ashe protects.)

    BEHOLD. BIG HEAD MODE. (apparently coded in by J.E. Sawyer himself, neat)



    Also that's my character with the white hair, just as an fyi. Now that I look at him he kinda looks like Geralt. Crap. That is not what I was going for.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
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  8. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 4, 2016
    I love it when games add neat little things like those.

    Always a nice little feature.
     
  9. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I only ever used the Gib option.

    It's funny to watch NPCs blow up into chunks even if it does not make any sense.
     
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  10. eissa

    eissa Altáriel, Lady of Radiant Garland

    Jan 7, 2016
    i tried to click that color coded hyperlink, It Doesn't Work!!
    Unplayable Ragemage! so much lore wasted on hyperlink. where's muh Pillars
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    @Ragemage: Keeping Tunon on your side is actually easy as hell, regardless of your chosen playthrough path.

    Bugs in my independent/rebel run so far:
    - "Stratos" the vendor has the wrong model, unless he's a very convincing transvestite. He refers to himself as male, but his model is Vendrien Guard female.
    - People praising me for actions I did not (yet) do. Specific example is the fact Lethian's Crossing civilians praise me for using the Vendrien Guard to protect them just after R decided to go rogue/insane/retarded.
    - Some core magic skills were super wonky in the interface & disappeared from my char even though I learnt it. When I learnt it again later from another drop or purchase, it worked fine.

    I'm also fairly annoyed by quests like Gino's. He told me to talk to Eldian & merchants about his issue, and a merchant told me what was up. I still wanted to ask Eldian's opinion and the dialogue option was gone. The quest just pointed me back at Gino. Sloppy. I always want the max possible info before proceeding. :)
     
  12. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    I'm going to do a Rebel run after I do a Disfavored one so I'll try to keep an eye out for these bugs and see if they affect me too. Who knows, it may be patched out by the time I get there, but we'll see.
     
  13. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Stratos will be in the Spire's main hall after you claim it for yourself, across from Arri.
    They might either change the model to the correct one, or make "him" another married lesbian by changing his references to himself to female (while keeping his wife).
     
  14. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016


    More shenanigans with Big Head Mode. I wonder how this'll look with that huge crowd at the Stone Sea, or better yet at Tunon's Court.

    Also @SuAside , there's a reason rape can't really be a feature for your character. That would make the game go from PEGI 16 to PEGI 18. (because for some reason you can
    kill a friggin baby
    but you can't cause rape without the ESRB or whatever it is having a seizure over it)

    The issue with this is that PEGI 18 games have to be heavily censored in some countries or are even outright banned, such as the infamous Left 4 Dead 2 Australia port wherein they basically had to remove tons of gore from the game just to be able to sell it there. https://www.destructoid.com/left-4-dead-2-censored-edition-153901.phtml

    Rape in a game also pushes it from M rated to AO (Adults Only) here in the states, which are first of all very rare to find because most games don't go past M, and second of all they're so frowned upon they're banned from being shown on streaming sites such as Twitch. ( http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/twitch-bans-streaming-of-games-rated-adults-only-by-esrb/ )

    Basically put if the game had rape in it, this would lead to a lot of legal problems and them having to probably censor other aspects of the game just to make it fit and be able to be sold everywhere, which means removed features or at the very least dumbed down gameplay. It's far more trouble than it's worth to put rape in a game. Thus rape is only mentioned and can't be acted upon. Blame it on the ESRB and whoever does the PEGI ratings and the countries who act like games M-rated and up are the end of the world, not Obsidian.
     
  15. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Well think about it a moment. The Edict states directly that the storms will continue to blow so long as a Regent of the Stalwart bloodline is RULING over Stalwart. Therefore if she isn't going to rule, the Edict fails. This would have made less sense if the Edict had said something like "The storms will continue to blow until the Regent's bloodline ceases to exist", but it doesn't. It specifically says ruling. It makes sense to me. It's like how the Edict of Swords in the beginning can be ended even if you sided with the Rebellion, because the only requirement is that someone owns that fort at the end of the day. Basically, Kyros needs to learn how to word his Edicts better.
     
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  16. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    I see. The Spanish location is good, but it clearly read "Until X dies" for me.

    Also, it's not like rape doesn't exist, in the Tunon Court you can intervene in a judgement where a Fatebinder killed two Chorus members to save the woman they were raping, while their captain watched. And you could either make it worse for her or get her out of blame, withoit the main subject going anywhere.
    Surely there are more instances of this, but the Lore makes this kind of violence a lot more uncommon (unless we are talking abot the Chorus)
     
  17. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    I haven't finished the game yet (not even close, I'm still in Act 2) but is it me, or the Chorus are just a bit too cartoonish? I mean, the Disfavored are dicks with a chip on their shoulder who prefer to execute prisoners, sure. But the Chorus acts more like a rabble of savages than an actual army, and is seemingly led by unhinged psychopaths who would sooner stab you in the back than cooperate even if it serves their interests. Its one redeeming facet, that it would rather spare enemy combatants than execute them, barely counts since they throw those recruits at the enemy to die, assuming they don't just desert first, and subject non-combatant recuits to a truly awful rite of passage.

    They're like the Legion in New Vegas, except without Ceasar there to maintain a pretense of being something more than a mob of assholes with no purpose other than inflicting violence on others for the sheer lulz of it.

    I mean, I like Verse, but basically she's the one thing stopping me from writing them all off as an over the top caricature.
     
  18. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    I think of the Voices of Nerat as like The Master from Fallout 1, and not just because of the multiple voices going on. They both have the "So what'll it be? Join! Die! Join! Die!" mentality and both believe they truly are for the greater good.

    For the Master's plan, he wants to turn everyone into Super Mutants. In his mind this makes everyone the same united under one banner and thus will end all wars, from racial to literal. Sort of like globalism. The Voices of Nerat meanwhile wants everyone to be in his howling chorus, wherein everyone can join and there are no requirements except to join or be killed. In his idea of a utopia anyone can rise through the ranks through hard work. A small grunt can easily become a gang boss no problem so long as he/she has the gumption to kill their boss. There are no bars on how powerful you can get in the Chorus, you just need the strength to take it. It's sort of like the idea that in Capitalism anyone can become a big success as long as they work hard and make a profitable business.
     
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  19. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Kyros is gonna need a team of lawyers looking through her edicts. His tendencies to leave loopholes in them could backfire on the empire.
     
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  20. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    Ha, picture the fatebinder coming with a badly written edict, trying to make sense out of it in front of the targets, while they mock him. Reminds me of this:
     
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