What is the proper solution to Tenpenny Tower

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Ziggy Stardust, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. sesom

    sesom First time out of the vault

    Nov 17, 2008
    I actually like the concept of a quest that the player can't win.

    Does it fit in the setting that BGS made there, no absolutely not. Tenpenny is as unlogical as it gets in FO3s setting. Still the quest wasn't played save.
     
  2. Big No

    Big No Watch as I open and close this door

    Oct 28, 2014
    Tenpenny Tower by itself isn't illogical, the way it was portrayed was. Nothing illogical about folks with more wealth lording it over weaker beings.
     
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  3. sesom

    sesom First time out of the vault

    Nov 17, 2008
    You are correct I didn't find the correct words. (I am not a native english speaker)
     
  4. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 16, 2018
    The best response in the quest is to do nothing, its the only way innocent people don't die. The status quo is maintained, as opposed to lowered, at the very least.

    Its a good commentary about how the wasteland is more realistic than a high fantasy RPG world, where the PC can and should meddle in everything they want and can impart change on the world in the way they see fit. The wasteland is a much more grim place, and some stones are best left unturned.
     
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  5. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Not doing a quest isn't really commentary though. It's also bad quest design.
     
  6. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 16, 2018
    I'm being optimistic. Ideally there should have been an option to fail the quest and definitively "walk away". Maybe its not possible in gamebryo though, since they cut the similar idea of letting you walk out of the Mojave Outpost in New Vegas.
     
  7. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    There is no gray tone in this quest. Either you're evil and you choose to kill three poor devils, just because they're ugly and the leader shouts everyday at the doorbell, or you're good and choose to help because they're living in the sewer.

    if I saved a kid from a car hit today and he turned the new Hitler, I did a good deed.

    if I KNEW that he would become the new Hitler, then that would be a morally questionable action.

    Btw, has a history of the Hulk Professor that is exactly that way.



    http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Incredible_Hulk_Vol_1_386


    back to fallout, your character has no way of knowing the outcome of helping the uglys, so it's not gray =/
     
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  8. Charwo

    Charwo Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 9, 2017
    No, it's very clear from the get go Roy's first instinct is to murder everyone in the tower and take it by force. Trusting this guy with a hair-trigger temper and nasty uncivilized notion of social Darwinism, it's pretty clear it's chancey to let him live. If I hadn't just talked to Michael, the other male ghoul, I would have slaughtered Roy right then and there because he's clearly a menace.
     
  9. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    I'll take your word for it. I have not played this game since 2012, I do not remember very well.
     
  10. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    And yet, he has no problems in listening to you and agree with letting you talk people in Tenpenny Tower's into letting the ghouls move in peacefully. He says he doubts it will work, but he gives you the time to try it. He also rewards you if you managed to get the ghouls in peacefully and sounds surprised and pleased with the result:
    He also says that Tenpenny also found the tower and took it from it's previous owner. Implying that Tenpenny also took it by force.
    Roy also mentions that he tried paying to live there several times, also that he got shot at some point by Tenpenny (and Tenpenny does brag about shooting his sniper rifle from his balcony at "game" like a safari).

    Also let's not forget that usually the first information a player obtains about Tenpenny is that he wants Megaton destroyed by an atomic bomb. So why would a good player help Roy or Tenpenny in this case?
    At least Roy agrees with a peaceful solution the first time you talk to him. There is no reasoning with Tenpenny about Megaton.

    Imagine if Tenpenny had exploded Megaton himself, then some Megaton survivors would be devising the same plan of letting the feral ghouls in the tower. It would be their revenge. They would speak kinda like Roy does (Tenpenny killed everyone in Megaton, he deserves what is coming at him). Would a good player kill these Megaton survivors at Tenpenny's request in this situation?

    The ghouls tried the peaceful way several times (pay to live there like any other resident), all they got was hate speech against ghouls (we can even witness some of this when we first approach Tenpenny Tower and hear Roy talking with Gustav), then we learn Tenpenny shots at the ghouls, then we talk to Roy and he agrees to not go with his plan to kill anyone if the player manages to mediate a peaceful way, then Roy is genuinely surprised and quite happy that he doesn't have to release the feral ghouls and kill everyone.
    Then we have 3 Dog reporting that Tenpenny is being evil by not letting the ghouls move in when they can pay to live there. 3 Dog, the "good fight" fighter. The one that will praise the player if he helps the ghouls move peacefully, of berate the player if he kills the ghouls.
    It is obvious the game is offering a "good" way, and that is helping the ghouls.

    Everything in the game is (sometimes quite literally) telling us that the Ghouls are innocent and just being discriminated at, and that Tenpenny is evil. :shrug:
    Only after the player knows what happens if you let the ghouls in peacefully, does this quest becomes less "black and white", and instead it just becomes black (no matter what you do, innocent people will die and the tower will be in the hands of someone evil).
     
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  11. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Or you could let ghouls peacefully in and then exploit FO3's faction system by blasting Roy with combat shotgun. Then you wait for them to forgive you your itchy trigger finger.
     
  12. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Even if you kill Roy in the metro tunnels, right after you just told him they can move, the human residents will still all end up dead after a few days.
    That's how bad that quest is set up.
     
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  13. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Really? Though the more I think about it I might have played with Unnoficial Patch when I did it.
     
  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I don't see why.

    Especially since being a goody-goody is CONSTANTLY criticized in the game. This shows that not every good action has good consequences.

    It didn't happen when I did it.
     
  15. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    That's your problem, then. A good moral choice should make you aware of the consequences of every choice available. Not "Oh, i made these two groups come to a truce, but it turns out one killed the other after a few days and i didn't know it would happened".

    What kind of bullshit is this?

    Except it does happen and it happens everytime you pick that choice.
     
  16. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Norzan is right, it always happen if you tell Roy he can move peacefully. It happens in all versions of the game too (PC, PS3 and XBox) because that is how the quest is scripted.
    If it didn't happened to you, it was because you were probably using the mod that prevents that from happening:
    https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/20069

    I even boot up my Fallout 3, without any mods (since I have it vanilla state). To make a video of it happening, because it always does. It was right after my Lone Wanderer left Vault 101 for the first time:
    https://plays.tv/s/M0E6s6DLsOpD
    After I kill Roy, you can skip to around 10:00. All of that time was me walking around and waiting 24 in-game hours several times, so it's very boring.
    NMA doesn't allow embedded play.tv videos, sorry about that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  17. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    You know you fucked up a quest's premise when modders have to come in and fix it.
     
  18. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Fixed for more accuracy
     
  19. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Still a fix and one that should have been in vanilla. Learning that Roy actually wants to kill everyone in the Tenpenny Tower even after the truce is something the player should be able to learn if they investigate.


    Edit: I missed that you actually edited my post on that quote. True indeed. ;)
     
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The bigger issue here and why the situation feels so strange, is that Fallout 3 is a theme park. Every quest including the main quest is nothing more but a theme ride, with no conection to each other. And it shows. That's why the ghouls killing the residents feels so out of the blue, for the same reason that destroying Megaton is useless. There are no real consequences either to the player or the region. Which is also not made better by the awfull writting and design in the game, if you think about it the whole location of the Tower in the middle of nowhere makes no fucking sense. Every character comes of more like a caricature of someone that's either good, evil or even neutral than something that's really relatable. The Witcher 1 and 2 for example did a much better job here, for the case you played those games. And that's because the game has relatable characters, with actuall motivations that make sense - for them at least. In Fallout 3 things often happen, simply because they happen the player isn't actually a part of the setting or the world, he is also just there to take the ride - or not.
     
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