Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Throatpunch, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I know, but there's so much new stuff, and my opinion has changed a bit after playing the game again.
     
  2. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Really? Thought you were Legion forever. Ready to join the Robert House revolution?
     
  3. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    No, I'm still Legion forever and a radical one at that but you know, Mr House rubs on you.
     
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  4. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I have only two playthroughs for New Vegas so far.

    1. The Independent Vegas.

    2. The Robert House ending

    In the Robert House ending, I went for him because of the fact my Courier was a professional and cynic rather than a idealist. He works for Robert House because Robert House is his employer, he's not particularly interested in the NCR and the Legion revolts him. Still, he's been employed by Robert House and if it's caps he wants them caps he'll have plenty of that.

    Will he be a dictator? Sure, but it's better than most options.
     
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  5. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    Jun 14, 2016
    I sided with House in my practical mercenary playthrough.
     
  6. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    I tend to play as someone who's more action rather than gives orders. House pays, provides a home and I like to think that the Courier personally oversees Freeside since House holds little interest over it.
     
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  7. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti I know what I'm doing

    Oct 6, 2015
    Since when does the bunker at Fortification Hill produce Securitrons?
    In all my playthrus with House its always implied to be a vast storage facility. He even calls it a "barracks", never a plant or manufacturing center.
    That reminds me--other than the dam by the end of the game, what infrastructure or economic base does House have apart from gambling? Is he going to suck off of NCR forever or does he plans for Vegas to become wholly self-sufficient? How is he going to pull this of--I mean, is he planning on putting the drunks and crackheads of Freeside to work? What exactly are the details of this grand scheme of his?
    House is cool, but I get too much of the Citizen Kane vibe from him. The snowglobes are bad enough, implying he'd be content farting around with the city of New Vegas until oblivion. Another undercurrent of Citizen Kane, though, was the starry-eyed upstart becoming that which he claimed to despise. Despite all claims to the contrary House does become a dictator after all. The monorail running on time reference, the fact he steamrolls Freeside for the hell of it and punishes an NCR-aligned Primm.
    I for one don't think the gamble on House would pay off too good.
     
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  8. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Oh, House totally claims he'll be a dictator. He just prefers autocrat.

    House's plan is pretty NCR dependent, which he freely admits. He wants to sell water and electricity to NCR in exchange for the money (caps) to rebuild New Vegas. He's also going to use gambling as a major force for getting people to come here and spend their money.

    He needs them for an independent Vegas to function as he thinks very much in the vein of a Pre-War First World businessman.
     
  9. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    I'm fully aware of this. Its just a random stab in the dark I decided to include in my argument. It might be able to produce more, or it might not.
    Indeed NCR/Gambling is Houses economic base. But it is a good one, which has and still does make him astronomically rich. What you must also take in to account is that House is not going to rely on NCR/gambling forever. Its not a perpetual thing.
    He is using the money and power as a springboard to restore human civilisation to glory.
    House will use that wealth to restart high technology sectors within twenty years. Within fifty, he aims to restart the conquest of space, with another fifty allowing him to send colonisation ships to extra-solar planets.
    Its already self sufficient. The Lucky 38 has a large generator that can power Vegas and the surrounding areas. And he has the Hoover dam. It has vast water sources (Lake Mead/Colorado river) and its relatively easy to farm since the Mojave is in its almost in its Pre-War condition because of the lack of nuclear bombardment (thank Mr House for that).
    He also has an immensely vast monetary surplus. He is a cap billionaire. He spent 800,000 on finding the platinum chip dammit.
    Farting around with Vegas isnt the plan, as I have iterated already. Are you familiar with this subject? The fact you think all House wants to do is mess about in Vegas forever is disquieting.
    Likening him to Citizen Kane is ridiculous.
    It was filled with Elvis impersonating dangerous criminal gangsters, for goodness sake.
    it is advantageous for House to have absolute loyalty from his affiliates. He needs everyone in the area with him, and all traces of NCR gone (apart from the tourists, of course). The high taxes in Primm are a deterrent to others.
    Perhaps because you are misinformed on the subject? I dont mean to be rude, but you dont seem to have done much research.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  10. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    He leaves the Kings alone if they become openly hostile to the NCR.

     
  11. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti I know what I'm doing

    Oct 6, 2015

    All evidence points to the latter. If it could produce more Securitrons, House and Yes Man would have surely said so. Instead both consistently refer to it as a kind of storage facility.


    It had better not be because never before, in the history of human existence, has a rich economic base been built on something insubstantial as gambling.

    Tell me how House plans to build an economic power base when Vegas doesn’t produce anything substantial on its own.

    New Vegas, much like the real life version, only thrives because it relies solely on the wealth of a larger entity--NCR in this case.

    The real infrastructure found in Vegas and the Mojave is thanks to the NCR transporting it over from the mainland—farming, trade, and industry. They’re the ones that also got Hoover Dam running to current capacity.

    Once House kicks NCR military out, along with all the skilled workers, traders, and settlers, what is his plan to utilize these assets?

    Who is going to going to keep Hoover Dam operational now that Mike Lawson and his engineers have been shown the door?

    Who is going to take over industry in the Mojave?

    Is House going to recruit the likes of that mumbling, wheezing vagrant in Freeside to go bang rocks in Quarry Junction?

    What I’m suggesting is there is plenty of in-game evidence hinting that House’s schemes are woefully vague for a reason—it seems he cannot see past the lights of Vegas and his grand plan may well never see fruition.

    Maybe he’s too obsessed with Vegas for his own good?

    Which brings us to…

    “What’s with the snowglobe collection?”

    --JE Sawyer

    You’re right. I just totally pulled that Citizen Kane thing from outta left field.

    What the hell was I thinking?

    Too had he’s proven to be extremely shitty in this regard.

    Two out of three of his families are plotting against him, the other is on the verge of regressing back to the “old ways”, and there are still hints of resentment from the first time he sowed his oats.

    NCR may roll over people, but they bring progress and are not averse to negotiation.

    Legion may brutally subjugate the populace, but they do a thorough job of assimilating them into their culture.

    House is far too sloppy for his own good. His wonky machinations aside he also fails to inspire loyalty, except among the most timid and unimaginative of subjects (Swank and the Snack Food Vendor Lady), and cannot maintain a decent measure of control over his subjects.

    This coming from a guy who thinks it’s feasible to build an economic juggernaut from the service sector, and fails to understand the nuances of the character he touts?

    Gimmie a break.

    Yup and he flattens them if you settle relations between them and NCR. Now I can understand House's stance here completely--that newfound relationship with the Republic makes them potential proxies and thus a liability.

    Don’t complete G.I. Blues, maintain the Kings’ neutrality, and House crushes them all the same because this time they are in the way.

    I can look the other way when NCR and Legion pull this kind of shit. NCR does it to ensure the continued survival of their nation, and Legion has the potential to forge a budding civilization out of the dross.

    I can't get over the notion that all of House's stratagems will never amount to anything more than propping up a post-apocalyptic diorama of Las Vegas.

    You could do a lot worse I suppose--a fortified "snowglobe" guarded by walls and robots is a helluva lot better than disorder and uncertainty. However I'm of a mind it will remain nothing more than a stagnant pipe dream that will go nowhere.

    Like I said, much like Charles Foster Kane, he becomes what he claims to oppose.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  12. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    At the risk of distilling things, I think House's plan is this:

    * Use gambling to get the money to get the platnium chip
    * Get Securitron Army
    * Get Hoover Dam which gives him Gambling, Water, and Electricity + Army
    * Sell Gambling, Water, and Electricity to NCR, Stay Independent With Army
    * Use caps from the three to buy materials and labor to build technical facilities
    * Begin creating new robots and machinery to build infrastructure to facilitate his transformation of Vegas into a Technopolis like the Institute.
    * Build Rocket Ship to Space to colonize it in environments not so chaotic as Earth like Vault-Tech's Beyond the Stars. Probably the Moon then Mars.

    Space is perfect for House because it's even more controlled and orderly than Vegas.
     
  13. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    House already has a rich economic base due to gambling. You'd do well not to deny that.
    Only billions of caps.
    Nope. There would be no Mojave if not for House.
    Doesn't need them.
    House.
    In fact, he does a much better job than NCR.
    Cass lived to see Hoover Dam in its Old World glory, humming with power the likes of which the Mojave had never seen. Vegas burned brighter than ever - Rose of Sharon Cassidy.
    Once again, it seems you haven't done enough research.
    It obviously is. He is a cap billionaire, as I have said.
    Also, go look at Las Vegas in real life.
    Don't forget also, he sells vast amounts of electricity and water to NCR.
    House only cares about industry in Vegas, so who knows.
    How are these comments relevant?
    He inspires much loyalty. All the people in the Casino's are loyal to him. All the staff, and the gangs are loyal to him.
    Those who become problems are dealt with. The rebellious faction within the Omerta's is purged, and Benny is swiftly liquidated.
    Complaining about his subjects occasionally becoming an issue is a non argument.
    Rubbish. One or two people in the three families are plotting against him. And as I said, they didn't last long.
    By old ways are you referring to cannibalism, or them returning to the wasteland?
    Because the cannibalism is a non issue that can be easily solved, and there is no chance of them returning to the wastes.

    I have already told you what House's plans are and how they are not all to do with Vegas, but you don't seem to be prepared to listen so never mind.
    I don't see what your problem is with this. It works.
     

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  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I think House's arrogance is a major problem he'll face in the Mojave because not only does he need the Courier (and Benny) but he's also a person who has a very limited appreciation for the actual Mojave. His knowledge and calculations are all academic really.

    But yes, his treatment of the Kings is just barbaric.

    We also see how his control over the Three Gangs is limited. Two of them are plotting against him and a third is about ready to revert to cannibalism.
     
  15. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    The Cold Detachment Mr House has from the world kinda serves as his biggest strength.

    He has an objective way of looking at faction

    Mr House considers himself to rule over New Vegas, despite what Freeside think.

    If The Kings side with the NCR, he sees that as treason.

    If you get the Kings to fight the NCR, he allows them to rule over Freeside independently because of there loyalty, and in the ending where you don't complete the quest, he doesn't anticipate a war between The Kings, he just accidentally provokes it by trying to send Securitrons to control the area.
    The Omertas are known for there dishonesty. Betraying Vegas is there way of making sure that they are on good terms with Legion, just in case.

    As for The Chairmen, they aren't plotting against House, only Benny is. Most of Benny's fellow gang members are completely oblivious to Benny's plans. They would never betray House on there own.

    As for the cannibalism, House doesn't care. So long as The White Gloves bring in money, that's all that matters.
     
  16. Brivoo

    Brivoo Powered by Radiant AI

    Jan 20, 2016
    The point isn't that he isn't rich; the point is that, if he severs ties with the NCR, he won't be rich for long.
    Hell, even the defeat of the Legion could spell a significant dent in his income, since his major customer-base is NCR soldiers who are only there because of the war.

    He is rich, but you're vastly overestimating the level of his wealth.

    Many if not all of the Mojave communities existed before House ever emerged, and the rest were established by the NCR. The only thing House created was the Strip (previously occupied by the inhabitants of Freeside), which is why nobody knows who he is or what he wants.

    He may be able to build a bunch of robots to suit his needs, but it's going to take a hell of a long time, especially since he has no specialized construction facilities as of now. He could recruit all of the unspecialized shmucks around the Mojave for his various sectors, but if that was always the case then the NCR wouldn't have had to bring in workers from back West.

    Fair point, though ironically you also haven't seem to have done a lot of research. Case in point:

    The only part of the real Vegas that's not financially flatlining is the Strip, and even it changes faces every ten years or so. The rest of the city is pretty much poor suburbs, which is artfully reflected in New Vegas itself. Yes, the real Las Vegas Strip brings in a great amount of income, but it all goes right back into it to keep it sustainable.

    The NCR only needs water in the Mojave itself, and there're few references to Hoover Dam being a key asset outside of their control of the Mojave. That's not to say selling water and power to the nation wouldn't be a viable strategy, but it wouldn't be enough to sustain an economy.


    House is an extremely pragmatic individual; it's a trait that's served him well as a businessman, but a political leader can't afford to dismiss everything in favour of focusing on one goal. House cares about his plan almost exclusively and hasn't taken any other factors into consideration; if that doesn't lead to his downfall, it will delay him to the point where his plan isn't needed anymore.

    They're not loyal to him; they're loyal to his payroll. As mentioned, two out of the three family heads already plotted to dethrone him, and that's at their highest point of financial stability.

    One of the key elements of leadership is recognition; people will never be loyal to an individual whose face they've never seen. House hasn't even interacted with the families directly; it's no wonder they don't trust him. To them, he's just security or a guy with an agenda he won't share.


    Yes, because just killing those who rebel without solving the problems that cause them to uprise in the first place is definitely not an endless cycle that will only end once they either finally kill the tyrant or he runs out of subjects to murder.

    Ironic.

    Just because he has a plan doesn't mean it'll work.

    The moment the war ends, he's the NCR's hostage.
     
  17. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti I know what I'm doing

    Oct 6, 2015

    Provide a real life example of a nation forged from an economy based solely on the service sector.



    Billions of caps. Trillions of caps. Bagilliions bazillions fafillions of caps.


    The amount of money House possesses is immaterial.


    The kind of shit that builds nations, that forms their economic foundations are tangible cornerstones like agriculture, commerce, and industry. The kind of stuff Vegas does not posses on its own, not without NCR intervention.



    Yeah, but without NCR intervention it's just another isolated community no different from New Reno... not a springboard for the reawakening of human civilization as House claims.



    Quite the contrary, he does need them. More than they need him in fact.


    Apart from the skill laborers NCR brings with it, the totality of House's supposed "empire" relies wholly on the actual empire of the NCR for its continued existence.


    Economic juggernaut? Economic parasite more like.



    Hold on. Then she says...



    Come on, don't leave that last bit out. This is the most apt description of House in the whole game, and the tone of uncertainty speaks volumes.


    Cherry picking quotes now? Dude, you are in no position to talk about "research."



    It's the same as the House/NCR dynamic.


    Real life Las Vegas cannot sustain itself without riding the coattails of the United States economy--you know, an actual superpower.


    It cannot exist in its current capacity without being propped up by a greater presence.


    It certainly isn't going to become an economic powerhouse on its own either. Even with the dam at his disposal, there is still the unanswered question of where he will get the raw materials and skilled manpower from.


    Yeah, who knows. I mean, fuck it, who knows where he is going to get the raw materials to and skilled labor, you know that pesky stuff needed to jumpstart industry?


    Maybe it will materialize out of thin air? Hopefully. Probably.


    NCR has its share of supporters and detractors who recognize both their good and bad points. For all the trouble they bring, they do provide a higher standard of living and security.


    Most everyone this side of the Colorado hates the Legion, but in turn also fear them. The ones who are thinking of leaving wouldn't fucking dare(Siri), and the subjugation of their conquered foes is complete to where they couldn't imagine life outside the Legion (Antony, Lucius).


    House's approach isn't so balanced and thorough.

    He squashed a bunch of people in order to secure his claim over New Vegas then left them to their own devices, which in turn allowed them to nurse their resentment of him.


    His assimilation of the Three Families is a half-assed job. The Omertas are utterly disloyal and can turn on a dime. They're proven to be wholly dedicated to following the lead of Nero and Big Sal if you complete How Little We Know in their favor. They'll play along if you place Cachino in charge, but how long until another better offer comes along?


    It's not outside the realm of possibility that slick bastard Benny could have rallied most of the Chairmen to his cause provided he was left to his own devices.


    House is also completely oblivious to the fact that the White Gloves are reverting back to cannibalism and eating his fucking customers. This is something the Courier figures out on their own if they bother to. If the White Gloves were, again, left to their own devices who knows how far Mortimer would have taken this and if House could have even stopped from leaving them by that point.


    The bottom line is House's out-of-touch, haphazard manner in managing his own subjects is extremely problematic. It's almost as if he thinks he's still running RobCo and the Courier, Benny, the Families, et al. are his damn employees instead of the volatile elements they truly are.


    It works well enough as a parasitic entity living off a host subject.


    But if you honestly believe he's going to magically transform a service sector economy into a powerhouse without skilled manpower, without producing anything of substance, all the while beholden to an actual economic superpower for its continued existence...


    I'm sorry, dude, but you been played. You've fallen for a sales pitch. Seems to me House is going to do nothing more than prop up the city he loves with robots and the backing of an actual nation-state.

    That's all he can do.

    Everything else is just a pipe dream.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  18. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Vegas.
    Eh, Cass is an idiot too loyal to NCR for her own good.
    He does not need NCR intervention. Ever heard of trade?
    The better offer is neutralised. House figured out when the Omertas got rebellious before, he'll figure it out again.
    I'm going to stop here and say talking about rebellious tribes is a non argument, since every time they caused problems, House got rid of the problems. They pose no threat.
    If that starts to cause a problem, it wont take long to solve. Anyway the WGS are super incognito about it so who cares.
    Its not. Otherwise how would he fund those projects?

    Jesus fucking christ I dont see what the problem is with this.
    Its not as if NCR is going to suddenly dissapear into the mist one day.


    Also, this big tract of shit about him being a parasitic entity hanging onto NCR is not true.
    If he wanted to rebuild New Vegas without the help and profit from the NCR, he can still do it, since, like I said, the Mojave was actually pretty self-sufficient with all those water sources from Lake Mead, Colorado River, and Goodsprings sources. Any settlements can thus farm their own food, coupled with the fact that most of the Mojave was intact and no difference from what it was in pre-War, and then there's also the power from the Dam, the Mojave can still rebuild. Albeit, of course, the progress would slow down, without the profit generated from NCR's tourism and trades with New Vegas.

    Its not out of the realm of possibility that slick bastard Benny wouldn't have gotten anywhere, since the courier fucking killed him.

    Nope
    Trading with the NCR and others, obviously.

    @Bubba Zanetti I dont particularly want to get into an age long debate here. Can we just accept our differing opinions and move on? Because nobody wins these types of discussions. We'll just go on for days like this if we don't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  19. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Vegas isn't a country, it's not even a state.
    Monaco, which New Vegas would probably be very comparable to.
     
  20. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti I know what I'm doing

    Oct 6, 2015
    I attacked ole House, and you by extension, a bit more fiercely than necessary but the gist I'm trying to get at is that everything is up in air with all the factions.

    Objectively speaking House just might be able to pull it off, provided his symbiotic relationship with NCR yields the necessary fruit that can be used to turn his plans into reality.

    However, the case can be made that his plans could just as easily stall in the dust and New Vegas remains nothing more than a little fiefdom run by an out-of-touch autocrat.

    That is not outside the realm of possibility either.

    Yeah, I'm actually talking about an independent, driving economic force.

    Monaco relies on nearby France for tourism and primary defense, even despite the small army units guarding it.

    Still very comparable to the House/NCR dynamic.