Would removing levels be an improvement?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by MasterworkStone, Feb 23, 2017.

Considering the following, would removing levels be an improvement?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. No

    19 vote(s)
    79.2%
  1. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    I think it makes sense to get extra XP if you do stuff in certain ways.

    If a town is under attack, and you persuade the bandits to leave, you should get less, why? Because you didn't solve the issue of 'stop the bandits', you just delayed them from attacking, they'll be back someday.

    If little Jimmy says 'please stop miss grouchy from hurting me', and you kill the lass, you should get less too, he didn't want you to KILL her! Just to get her to stop, he's a kid.

    Etc.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. Arnust

    Arnust Vault Senior Citizen

    Feb 2, 2016
    Yeah, extra XP should be awarded for working harder for it. After all, it's one of the cons of genocide runs, not much XP to go around, and a pro of pacifist runs.

    You can always go berserk and kill everyone, but can you make long-term solutions with your honed skills? Even the classics did this, albeit more focused in doing so many small things and getting lil' bundles of XP that pile up.
     
  3. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    IMO its a mixed bag.

    Killing everything you see isn't always the best way to do things.

    But neither is trying to talk your way out of it.

    Sure, you can probably persuade hitler to stop killing jews for a month, but is that as effective at stopping jew killings than just shooting him in the face?
     
  4. Risewild

    Risewild Vault Fossil
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I have no idea how I missed this thread. It must have been made when I wasn't around because of personal issues.

    Actually In classic Fallout games you can get the same experience as killing a enemy if you stay sneaking and not found by the enemy if you're at a minimum distance. You will gain exp every second or so until you stop gaining exp after a while or you get seen. If you then kill the enemy you only gain the remaining exp that you didn't gain from sneaking (if you sneak until you get no more experience you get 1 exp when you kill the enemy IIRC, if you sneak and gain half or the total exp the enemy would give you if you killed it, you will only gain the other half of the exp when you actually kill it, etc).

    So the classic games even thought of a way to make the player get the same exp just by successfully sneak for long enough near those enemies you would have to kill otherwise to get the exp.
     
  5. Arnust

    Arnust Vault Senior Citizen

    Feb 2, 2016
    Well, Sneak is other way to face situations. It's "harder" to pull off, and has a build investment.

    But if we convince Hitler to go back to Art College and become a world-known artist? Should we get the same reward if we went and shot him in the face?
     
  6. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    Hitler's motivations went beyond getting rejected by an art school, so that would be a stupid way to try to solve it...
     
  7. Risewild

    Risewild Vault Fossil
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Hmm I was just thinking and I now am not sure if Fallout games gave exp for sneaking... My brain is not working very well today and I keep getting confused about stuff, so I am not sure if Fallout games do that or if only the Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader does it... :confused:
     
  8. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    I don't think Fallout 1-2 does at all.

    None of the Fallout's do to my knowledge.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  9. Risewild

    Risewild Vault Fossil
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Well, I guess they fixed that for the last game using the SPECIAL system before Bethesda bought Fallout then (although made by Reflexive Entertainment and published by Black Isle). Because I do remember clearly Lionheart using that (IIRC it allows to get 75% of total exp by sneaking or something).

    I don't usually play sneaky in classic Fallout.
     
  10. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    I never found sneaking too great in Fallout 1-2, only used it to become made man of all 4 gangs. XD
     
  11. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    Jack of all trades, leader of all factions. Found ya.
     
  12. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    More like 'cheeky exploiting asshole'. XD

    Only did it for the lulz.

    I'd normally join the dudes who get you into the sierra base.
     
  13. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    How much EXP you earn shouldn't directly correlate with the consequences of your actions, otherwise people would try and get the best outcomes purely for the sake of reward, rather than because they match with the character's ideals.

    I'd say EXP should be granted for quest completion(So it doesn't matter how you beat the quest, so long as you do so), or for passing the encounter, regardless of how.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    A socially awkward dude specced for smashing enemies won't have the skills to talk their way out of a bandit encounter, so they can't get the 'peaceful' solution anyway.

    If you make all rewards equal, it simply means that your choices have no consequences, which is stupid.

    Look at Jacobstown, if you do it peacefully, you get a better reward, because it MAKES SENSE, and that is what Marcus ASKED of.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  15. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Reward, as in the questgiver gives you a better item, response or payment if you do it how you were asked to do it, yes definitely.

    EXP Reward, perhaps not. EXP should be an issue of helping you advance in the game after you've passed a certain set of goal posts, as opposed to being a motivating factor.
     
  16. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    XP is how much you 'learn' from stuff.

    How is 'talking raiders to walk away' a learning experience, when a bunch of fucked up town people ask you to kill them because they keep raping people?

    Equally how is mashing small children to death a learning experience, when little sally asks you to return a doll some kid stole? Etc?
     
  17. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Technically speaking you are probably not going to learn any new valuable information from killing raiders or returning a doll.
     
  18. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant.

    Nov 8, 2016
    Sure you learn stuff, you're likely to get better reputation with the people you help, and thus they'll teach you, reward you, they'll acknowledge you did what they want.

    Doing something which is detrimental as a whole is likely to not make you learn as much.

    Too many games promote 'do anything', which means that your choices don't matter.

    In Fallout 2, I can tell the Wrights that 'someone' killed their son, or I can tell them that the REAL people did it, which rewards me with more stuff.
     
  19. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    Jan 19, 2016
    I exploited the turn based combat to sneak pass enemies especially in the Toxic Caves because I wasn't going to put points in melee weapon.
    Sneak isn't fun in FO1/2. Sneak was definitely improved in the later titles.
    You really don't have enough time to genocide if you have animate cartoons.
    That sounds like a joke solution like turning a robot to a sheriff so how amusing it is should be its own reward.
    I think that I found out the real problem. Exp rewards immediately after skill checks. It was interesting that Dean was so easily butthurt that a skill check lock out a non-violent solution. It makes assumption that the solution requiring the skill check is the better solution. I decided to solve the last part of OWB without lying to the Think Tank (partly because I already reached the level cap).

    While I like the idea of being able to finish a game without killing anyone, I don't think it should be the best solution. You could rescue someone from slavery by buying him from some slavers but it probably more moral to kill the slavers. I think George Orwell made a case against pacifism in WW2.
    You learn how to kill them better like aiming better. Maybe have it stop giving exp after a while and the raiders start avoiding fighting the player or give exp for watching creatures act from a distance like a nature documentary when you see how they eat, hunt, or interact.