Your Complaints Are Pointless...

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by The King of The Worms, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. The King of The Worms

    The King of The Worms First time out of the vault

    Jul 28, 2017
    Now before you get your pitchforks out and tell me to kill myself hear me out first. This is one of two posts i'll be making one will be defending those who think the new games are great and the other will be defending those who think the older games were great. This one will be defending the new Fallout fans opinion on the older fan base and the older games. Again I WILL BE DEFENDING BOTH SIDES IN SEPARATE POSTS!!!

    Before the rant begins lets take a little history lesson. On September 30, 1997 the first Fallout game was released to the gaming public. The game took place in an alternate timeline where the U.S.A still had anti commie propaganda and looked like it had gotten stuck in the 1950's. The game takes place in a post apocalyptic Southern California after a Great War had taken place between The United States, China, and the U.S.S.R. This very battle would leave the world looking like something out of a Mad Max film.

    EarthAfterGreatWar.png

    That's the jist of the story but what about the game? Well the game played as a turn based strategy/RPG game. When ever your character would enter combat you would be given a certain amount of action points to use to however you see fit. After a person or creature used up there action points the other enemy would then be given a turn. What made the game interesting aside from the story was it's use of the environment in these battles if you were to make your character walk behind a wall the other enemy wouldn't be able to shoot you thus adding to the over all strategy element of the game.

    Now when the enemy was defeated you would gain XP from your battle. After doing enough battles and completing enough missions you would eventually level up and gain some points to add to your skill tree. This would be part of the games RPG aspect. Another thing the game offered was choice such as do I help this person or should I help this person? You had full control over what kind of person your character was. Plus you also had a variety of weapons to choose from thru out the entire game so you also had that to.

    The game was a success in fact in did well enough for there to be a sequel released on
    September 30, 1998. However unlike most sequels not much was actually changed about the game minus a new story. The biggest difference between the two games was the overall tone of it, Fallout 1 had a more serious world where only the best can survive where as fallout 2 had a more silly and brighter tone to it. Other then this however not much would change...or at least that's what most thought.

    In 2004 Bethesda Softworks bought the rights to the Fallout franchise while some saw this as a new light to the series others saw this as the beginning of the end. After a little while Bethesda would release their new game Fallout 3. Now rocking a new 3D engine Fallout looked and played differently then it's previous adversaries. No more turn based combat now the games battles would take place in real time only stopping when the character had entered the V.A.T.S system. The game received amazing reviews from critics just like it's original counter parts.

    However while some cheered at Bethesda's attempts to take the game in a different direction others despised this and hated Bethesda for changing their game. These people could not stand to see what Bethesda had turned their game into no more was Fallout about turn based strategy now it was FPS/RPG. These people felt Bethesda had taken a game they loved and burned it to the ground. This is where the Bethesda hate train would begin.

    Now that those uninformed have caught up lets talk about the actual title of this thread. Now a good majority of people don't understand why these as some would call them "classic Fallout fanboys" would be so mad at Bethesda which is understandable I mean after all it's kinda like the book to movie argument while you might enjoy that movie there will always be the one person saying the book was better. Well part of this comes from the fact that these people actually believe that Bethesda have taken "their" game and completely destroyed it. I once heard someone say this "It's as if Bethesda had taken every copy of the original games threw them in a hole and burned them." This may seem extreme but it is very true with SOME of these people.

    But like you can't judge a book by its cover you can't judge a person by their first impression I will admit I mistakenly did that with this website to which I am still very apologetic about. This doesn't apply to every person who enjoyed the older games it just applies to the select few who make it very noticeable. Now this is where my main hate with this is going to come into play so i'm just going to state it now. YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE WORTHLESS!!!

    Lets be honest when have developers ever listened to those who mock them and complain about them 24/7 I mean would you? Think about it these VERY SPECIFIC people would rather hate on the company and their franchise rather then actually give good criticism. NEWS FLASH PEOPLE yelling like 12 year old COD player isn't going to get Bethesda to listen to your complaint's it's just going to make them ignore you even more. Also people at the end of the day IT'S JUST A STUPID GAME look I am a full believer that video games should be seen as art but come on people you gotta let go of the past and make way for the future. Fallout has had it's bumps with Bethesda but guys remember Bethesda has only made 2 games The Elder Scrolls now compared to the Elder Scrolls then has had so much improvement so who's to say Bethesda can't also apply this to their next Fallout game?

    In conclusion this overall hate to the new Fallout games and Bethesda is a little nuts. Yeah Bethesda is nowhere near perfect I mean take this mods thing for example. But Bethesda does care yes they care about money but they also care about Fallout and they aren't going to let it die. Heck Bethesda counts the older games "minus the spin offs" as lore to and have even done a good job at adding on to it heck want proof check out a YouTuber named Oxhorn he makes videos on Fallout's hidden lore and good lord for all the crap thrown at Fallout 4 one place Bethesda did not fall was in the lore. So guys lets stop complaining and look forward to the future of this incredible game franchise that we all grew up playing.
     
  2. Kohno

    Kohno A Smooth-Skin

    Jul 30, 2009
    They never did in the first place. They heard, probably, but they weren't listening (and they likely didn't want to either, as the information wouldn't have suited them... and so they ignored it). And now they don't have to give it one thought anymore with their army if sheeple who will take and swallow anything they get from the cogwheel brand, and apologize for and shrug off any faults.

    There was plenty of level headed, constructive and creative criticism back then and even after the release of F3 (to claim otherwise is just an indicator of absence at the time, or ignorance of the subject).

    Complaining is pointless in that there will never be a good -proper- Fallout game again from Bethesda; they won't be doing it and as such there's no "looking forward" about it (all that's left is an unlikely mild pleasant surprise over this or that individual aspect). But it is also all that's left to do since there's so little (next to nothing) good about the new series.

    And this is once again a topic discussed and debated to death years ago already.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  3. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Bethesda will never make an incredible Fallout game.

    One of the reasons I joined this site was that I wasn't able to express my thoughts on Fallout 4 elsewhere without getting shit from fanboys. So if I want to criticize or complain about any of the Fallout games, whether it's by Interplay, Obsidian or Bethesda, I will.

    Besides, discussion and criticism is healthy. Blindly accepting what you're given doesn't lead to anywhere good.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 8
  4. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    I'm not pissed at 3d fallout. I'm not even pissed about borderlands fallout. I'm pissed about the quality of he writing and how broken the lore is at this point. Our complaints and criticisms may pointless in the end. But that doesn't make them any less right. The fallout series is basically ruined at this point. What are the chances we'll get a *second* new vegas type fallout? Yeah the series is basically doomed.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  5. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    So you are going through the bargaining phase at this point. I am not gonna wait for the next great Fallout game because it will never come. I actually will actively not buy anything Bethesda shits out of their main studio. I may still partake in Arkane's and Id's games if they look interesting enough, but as of right now the Fallout franchise is just dead.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  6. Risewild

    Risewild Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    A few corrections:
    The U.S.S.R. wasn't in conflict with neither the USA or China. There is no information about them being part of the great war at all.
    What also made the game interesting aside the story was that your character strengths and weaknesses play a part in almost everything you do, say, use, fight, etc. (It is a proper RPG where your character interacts with the world and the world interacts with your character and both use the same rules from that universe. And how you make your character matters for everything, playing a low intelligence character is different from a high intelligence character, etc).
    Actually most sequels in the 80's and 90's didn't actually changed much at all. Look at Super Mario games, Commander Keen, Sonic games, Command and Conquer games, Warcraft games, FPS like Doom or Quake, etc. They would just expand the games in the sequel (like Fallout 2 did). It was the standard of gaming industry.
    It is not like today when you release a sequel that you seem to have to make changes and somehow reinvent the wheel or something.
    Bethesda didn't bought the rights of Fallout IP in 2004, what they did was buy the rights to make 3 Fallout games, not the full rights. They acquired Fallout rights in 2007 but not the full ones either, they still didn't have the rights to Fallout MMO, they gained those rights in court against Interplay only in 2012.
    Actually, many fans of the classic games say that the best Fallout is Fallout New Vegas. They don't hate the 3D real time combat. This is a very widespread misconception from people who usually only frequent Bethesda's forums and/or Reddit, etc and avoid places with classic fans.
    Classic fans are RPG fans, and Fallout New Vegas shows that it is possible to make a good RPG in 3D and real time.
    Also the Bethesda hate train have started as early as Morrowind was released and fans saw that the RPG system of The Elder Scrolls got dumbed down, it then increased when Bethesda released Oblivion and dumbed down even more of the RPG system, then it got really in the peak when Skyrim dumbed it down even more. Fallout fans were not the ones with the "hate train", the elder scrolls fans were even before Bethesda made a Fallout game.
    I know what I am talking about here, I lived through all of it (TES is my favorite fantasy RPG game series since Daggerfall was released).
    Like i point out in the previous point, people do not hate that Bethesda changed the combat and made it 3D, they didn't like how Bethesda grabbed the most influential cRPG ever series and removed most of the Roleplay out of Roleplaying Game. This has been debated many times around here over and over. And again, Fallout New Vegas proves this. People love FNV not because it was made by Obsidian (like some Bethesda fans think) but because it used the engine and combat style but made a RPG using them in just 18 months while never had worked with the game engine and have to learn while they were already building the game. They couldn't even make the entire game they wanted to because they didn't have enough time.
    Actually complaining about things actually accomplished several things in the gaming industry over the years. Steam paid mods was shut down just a couple of days after being implemented, Mass Effect 3 ending was changed, Uncharted 3 got it's gunplay changed because fans complained, etc.
    There are a lot of Fallout 3 fans that hate Fallout 4, those are Bethesda fans and not classic Fallout fans and they still hate Fallout 4. It is not just the classic Fallout fans, it is even Bethesda fans.
    Like I said in a different thread here:
    Liek I mentioned in a point before, Betehsda "Hate Train" started with TES fans, not Fallout fans. People complained with each new TES game because it kept dumbing down the RPG mechanics in each new game. :lmao:

    Again, no one hates Bethesda for no reason, they don't like how Bethesda can't make good writing and build worlds that make sense. Many people say that they should find or acquire a good writing studio to write for their games, like they got Id Software to make the shooting in Fallout 4. Put good writing in a Bethesda game and it will improve the games by a mile. Another way of improving Bethesda's newer games is for them to go back to your character's skills, attributes, perks matter. Or just stop saying their newer games are RPG and tell the truth that they are action/adventure/open world games with some RPG mechanics.

    Although, Bethesda is an awful company and have been using dirty tactics in the gaming industry to shut down competition and/or acquire their IPs/games for decades now.
    Another post I wrote in a different thread:
    Now if someone hates Bethesda, it should be because of them being assholes :lmao:.
     
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  7. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    Besthesda, moar like Bethesturd. Amirite?
     
  8. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Missed that first time around.

    Yes, because Bethesda made an offhand reference to the NCR and Mr House, they care about the lore. Such examples of this are:

    • Jet is a Pre-War drug.
    • X-01 Power Armour is both Pre-War and Post-War.
    • T-60 is the best Pre-War power armour despite the T-51b being the best model before the Enclave's.
    • Aliens and their technology are actually canon (Cabot House).
    • Ghouls don't need water or food to survive...despite Necropolis dying if you steal their water chip without fixing the water pump, but that's Fallout 1's mistake clearly.
    • The Pre-War world was actually a fine and dandy, white-picket fence dream to live in.
    • Robot AI is now all self-aware despite lacking the hardware to be.
    • Super Mutants are back again despite FEV having run out long before.
    I'm starting to believe that I should listen to @CerberusGate.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    Dec 30, 2010
    Robot AI didn't lack the hardware to be self aware. It lacked it's own existence. Wewere told countless times that the robots never had aby AI at all, they just ran routines with simulated personalities, even FO3 knew this. Altho I blame Avellone for this too after he turned ED-E into a R2D2 clone in lonesome road.
     
  10. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Vault Dweller
    Modder

    Jul 14, 2016

    I would agree with this post completely if one thing was't true.

    Fallout 4 was not shit
     
  11. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Who says we believe our complains are being heard in the first place?

    Bethesda can go fuck themselves, and I don't care if they care or not.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  12. YeeCop

    YeeCop Just a Sweet Irradiated Transvestite

    Jan 26, 2017
    Do we, as Fallout fans, not have a right to complain? I mean would you rather keep your negative opinions to yourself and have Bethesda not give a shit, or would you rather vocalize your opinions about Fallout 3/4 and have Bethesda still not give a shit, but now they know they werent able to play you the fool like they did to the rest of their hivemind fanboy zealots?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  13. The King of The Worms

    The King of The Worms First time out of the vault

    Jul 28, 2017
    I recommend reading the other post I made agreeing with your stand point.
     
  14. Kadscaner

    Kadscaner NMA's Neighborhood Mutant

    Feb 4, 2016
    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  15. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    This is the problem I see, Bethesda is trying to capitalize on too many demographics just like EA does with it's IP's. The problem with this logic is it prevents a stable fan base from being generated. For example; Valve while not so much a game developer these days still makes it a point to respect, and honor their fan bases even when they do or do not produce an IP. The reason they do this is for one very smart reason, to capitalize on the fan base's input and creativity.

    Due to this kind of foresight Valve in particular is a titan in their field almost completely because of their fan base generated IP. Now I can sense some of you are reading this as some kind of back handed deal, however what Valve does in this case is not to reduce their fan base when they acquire their generated IP's but to expand it by rewarding those for their effort and input that generated it.

    Granted every so often as a company they make mistakes which generates backlash such as the paid mods fiasco. But in that case that was an initially supported idea by the modders that ended up being a very bad idea as it began to work against their fan/modder base.

    In Bethesda's case they are going for the broken extreme just like EA has done, and with every new IP or release they opt to ignore the generated fan bases and plan to generate a new one with each release. This creates an interesting scenario of which we are all victims of. In this type of planning what happens is they fuel a hype train HARD, and push for the most publicity possible to get even individuals not interested in the IP to at least become curious about the hype.

    In doing this it generates a simple mob mentality for their consumers where all they hear is all the "awesome" things they want to hear, and turn a deaf ear to all the reasonable points made by those who have seen this all before. This eventually manages to get the "mob" to push those who otherwise would not purchase the product to engage with the IP based only on peer pressure.

    Once they have acquired enough support is when they begin releasing what is referred to as the party favors, in Fallout 4's case that was all the pre-purchase junk, that silly vault game, and the pip boy gimmicks to entice additional potential players as well super charge that "hype train". (CHOO CHOO, COMING FOR THAT BOOTY)

    Then they go for the gold with what's known as gold release, but in order to ensure the success of the gold release they approach game review businesses. Bear in mind that almost all parties that review games are some form of business which of course means there is incentive for profit. The better review they give the game means more incentive from it's publisher to use them again, or to get paid outright, maybe both.

    Now I'm sure some of you are beginning to understand how incredibly corrupt this business model is, some of you may not believe my factual output since its on a dissenting forum. But from my experience as a game developer I can assure you that this is indeed how their practice works.

    Now for the previous fan base they are allowed to be crushed by the "hype train" for the next release as their dissenting views are typically chalked up to be negative conspiracy ramblings based on details and other things that the feel good hype train rejects outright. Once the "hype train" passes the passengers find themselves on the tracks to be run over by the next train to come barreling down the tracks. However the way the "hype Train" is generated is to incentivize those on the tracks to jump back onto the train and run over those left on the tracks.

    Its a very brutal cycle that is very nefarious, even by my standards.
     
  16. The King of The Worms

    The King of The Worms First time out of the vault

    Jul 28, 2017
    Remember when developers actually cared about pushing the limits of what gaming is capable of?
     
  17. Kadscaner

    Kadscaner NMA's Neighborhood Mutant

    Feb 4, 2016
    Yes, but, pushing the limits is not an excuse for shitty content.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  18. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    I kinda don't, because when developers cared, I was a baby/kid.

    That shit hasn't happened since the 90's.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    If there's any developers that's actually cared about pushing the limits of what gaming is capable of, they're sure as hell not Bethesda.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  20. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    I honestly can't say I know of ANY developers.

    As much as I admire the good ethics of, say, CD Projekt Red, Witcher 3 was still a rather mechanically low tier game, auto attacking slashemup mechanics and all.

    Maybe some interesting games here and there, with good pieces of mechanics, but I cannot think of modern games where on the whole, the game is a true breakthrough.

    What RTS has the kinetic rounds and individual turrets of Homeworld? Where each one actually has to AIM to hit?

    What FPS has proper armour mechanics like Level IV, Level III, etc? (None that I know of...Although Misery tries to make it work)

    What game has proper health mechanics, individual bones, muscles, flesh, organs? Well, Dwarf Fortress, but not much else. DX