Power armour, how SHOULD it work?...

[ThatZenoGuy]

I've played fallout 1, 3, and NV, and I understand how 2 works like 1, and 4 introduced what are basically mecha running on AA batteries.

As I understand it, while obviously large, from the sprites in Fallout 1-2, they were manportable.

This is further reinforced by NCR being able to use the shells as heavy armour, by removing the servos of T45.

T51b ran off of a microfusion pack, which seemingly lasted 'forever' (120 years, and I assume that means 120 years of USAGE).

T45d ran off of energy cells, but by Fallout 3 it appears they now run on similar fusion packs, as they don't suck up energy cells.

Enclave armours, Mk 1 and 2 were nearly (if not entirely) identical in appearance, but the Mk2 was made from superior materials, and was a better armour.

These armours appear to also run on fusion power, with a lifespan which is also 'basically forever' as far as gameplay is concerned.

I've had a lot of debates with people on other forums as to how 'tanky' power armour is, and I think some people interpret it wrong.

We have a citation that the shell of the T51b can tank 2500 joules of kinetic energy, this is comparable to large rifle rounds, and is smaller than a .50cal's energy output.

But consider it covers your entire body, and grants inhuman strength, allowing a man to carry miniguns and missiles launchers like it is nothing.

Your average 1950's tank (Tactics had a sherman, which is a WW2 vintage tank) had upwards of 200mm plus of armour penetration.

Simply no man portable suit is going to have that much protection, so its obvious suits were made to take out tanks via a combination of shrapnel protection, coaxial machinegun resistance, and the ability to provide massive firepower on the infantry scale (Fat mans, and such).

It always bothered me that in fallout 4, these massive plates of metal and synthetic materials just chip away like it was nothing.

Another issue is the size, in every fallout, barring 4, you could carry at least one suit on your person, which I can only assume is a combination of Fallout physics being silly, or that power armour can be 'folded' for storage.

I had a heated debate recently on another forum, where I expressed my dismay with the 'power armour frame' system, which I find to be against the established canon.

We know for a fact taht T45 uses servos, while T51b uses hydraulics as a means of locomotion, and that while T45 has plates and servos attached to an inner suit (You can even see the attachment points on the inner suit, in the standalone 'recon armour' suits), the T51b appears to be a combined plate and ballistic weave design, utterly separate in all but the most vague of design similarities.

This isn't even getting into the enclave armours, which visibly have different proportions, and who's design was entirely postwar by different entities.

Another strange thing added, was reactive armour mods, and a jetpack.

I feel as though I don't have to explain why reactive armour of practical use, on such a small 'vehicle' is a bad idea, but feel free to ask why if you're uncertain.

But the jetpack? This is just silly, its blatant shoehorning of gimimcks from modern FPS games.

I had an argument with someone about this one time, and I could never get a response much more articulate than "Its awesome! Why not have it in?".

Its shameful that such disregard for canon/lore, and sheer common sense exists.

So, any quarrels you have with my own opinions? I'd love to hear them, might even change my own mind on some of the matters.

 

[Ediros]

Not really, in canon power armour is a walking tank. In Fallout 1 and 2 it provided amazing protection, but user could still be killed by emp or powerful weapons.

Fallout 4 is not canon to me so whatever.

I like the idea of custom power armour but only like modified t-45 but not a mish mash of other armours, especially power armour frame.

Also Fallout 2 toughness + king of boxing made you ridicuolosly tanky, which I really liked.

 

[Zanardi]

I've played fallout 1, 3, and NV, and I understand how 2 works like 1, and 4 introduced what are basically mecha running on AA batteries.

Its shameful that such disregard for canon/lore, and sheer common sense exists.

So, any quarrels you have with my own opinions? I'd love to hear them, might even change my own mind on some of the matters.

I liked to read your thoughts and points. For Fallout4, a videogame, what happens: when designing a simulation, you do always have to shape what is relevant, or what is not, for the experience you what to provide.

On Fallout 1/2, the terrain is basically flat. No dunes, or whatever. The player does not die from starvation, and it is not wrong. It's just how the game, as simulation, was shaped. Cutting edges, to give the player a certain desired experience.

On Fallout 4, they came with this "armor and weapon modding" addition, based on Fallout 3/NV mods on the web. It is an interesting feature, and gives all that junk you see on the game a purpose. It really makes the collecting of junk a interesting meaning of play. Observe how the lowest weapon category, those improvised guns, upgrade on the game. It's kinda cool to upgrade junk weapons. Too bad they get weak on mid-game.

About the jetpack, an interesting perspective, is how the player advances on the game. The jetpack is kinda rigged to be used on the mid-final part of the game, and gives to the player wings to see the world in another way. It is like a Zelda game, a tool that helps you to travel on a world that you probably traveled on foot a lot, before.

But my views are about game design and simulations, I do like to read about sci fi and imagine about technogical problems and possible solutions.

 

[R.Graves]

I was once beaten to death by some yakuza in fallout 2 while in power armor so... I never got the "tank" interpretation people are so fond of.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Not really, in canon power armour is a walking tank. In Fallout 1 and 2 it provided amazing protection, but user could still be killed by emp or powerful weapons.

Fallout 4 is not canon to me so whatever.

I like the idea of custom power armour but only like modified t-45 but not a mish mash of other armours, especially power armour frame.

Also Fallout 2 toughness + king of boxing made you ridicuolosly tanky, which I really liked.

I beg to differ.

We have a direct number which implies AP .308 rounds should penetrate T51b.

It was NEVER designed to tank heavy weapons, this is obvious from the 2500 joules citation.

 

[Ediros]

I beg to differ.

We have a direct number which implies AP .308 rounds should penetrate T51b.

It was NEVER designed to tank heavy weapons, this is obvious from the 2500 joules citation.

I have noticed that, but it makes the armour pretty worthless in that case.

Especially since there are weapons, which use .44 or .50 that will tear through it with an ease.

Heck, NCR defeated brotherhood due to superior numbers and AP ammo.

It comes down to gameplay and story segregation. In New Vegas enclave power armour has got 36 DT and 35% Dr in j.e.sawyer patch.

So a hit from base anti materiel rifle would deal like 45 damage per shoot. It is still pretty good if I am perfectly honest.

In lore one soldier in power armour could take on a whole town on his own.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I have noticed that, but it makes the armour pretty worthless in that case.

Especially since there are weapons, which use .44 or .50 that will tear through it with an ease.

Heck, NCR defeated brotherhood due to superior numbers and AP ammo.

It comes down to gameplay and story segregation. In New Vegas enclave power armour has got 36 DT and 35% Dr in j.e.sawyer patch.

So a hit from base anti materiel rifle would deal like 45 damage per shoot. It is still pretty good if I am perfectly honest.

In lore one soldier in power armour could take on a whole town on his own.

Remember that the best armour is not getting hit at all! ;P

In reality (and to a degree, Fallout), .44 pistol rounds would have pratically no effect on power armour.

Pistol rounds, even AP ones, are pathetic at penetrating armour.

A .50BMG would penetrate, but a power armoured trooper would be highly survivable against high numbers of 5.56 (chinese assault rifle) armed troops.

 

[R.Graves]

Fallout 4's power armor is a bit strange. On the one hand I love because it makes you feel like a hulking monstrosity. A force to be reckoned with. That is until people start shooting at you. Then pieces chip off like its nothing and thus the immersion is destroyed.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Even worse, is how .38 SPECIAL (Literally a pathetic round against armour) can chip it to death!

 

[J_Fred]

Other than defenses, I'll be honest and say that I loved the way Power Armor functioned in Fallout 4. It really felt like you were a walking tank. I think Bethesda nailed that, and, unfortunately, not much else.

Make power cores last WAY longer, but be WAY less common, and I probably couldn't think of much critique, other than the mix/matching of armor like T-51b and X-01. But I can tolerate it.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Other than defenses, I'll be honest and say that I loved the way Power Armor functioned in Fallout 4. It really felt like you were a walking tank. I think Bethesda nailed that, and, unfortunately, not much else.

Make power cores last WAY longer, but be WAY less common, and I probably couldn't think of much critique, other than the mix/matching of armor like T-51b and X-01. But I can tolerate it.

I don't exactly like how it worked in FO4.

It makes me feel more like a battlesuit from Battletech, not an agile human scale powered armour.

While NV/3 didn't quite get the 'feel' of power armour, it at least got the man portable aspect (which has been the case since 1) right.

It just feels too 'clunky' to me.

Maybe T45 should be like that, but by Advanced power armour, its pretty obvious it is no less agile than an unarmoured human.

 

[TheChosen1]

It makes me feel more like a battlesuit from Battletech, not an agile human scale powered armour.

You look like you belong in a battle mech game. This is Fallout 2. Perhaps you opened the wrong folder on your hard drive?

Although, I think it acts more like a Terminator suit than a mecha.

 

[R.Graves]

I like the portrayal of power armor as a mech suit. It makes sense to me because how else is one supposed to get into it? logically that's how it would work. it does sort of contradict Its portrayal in previous games but I think this is one of those cases where a small retcon can greatly help with "rule of cool" and the practicality/logic of power armor. Near as I can tell that's the only retcon from fallout 4 that I'm 100% for.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I like the portrayal of power armor as a mech suit. It makes sense to me because how else is one supposed to get into it? So logically that's how it would work but it does sort of contradict Its portrayal in previous games but I think this is one if those cases where a small retcon can greatly help with "rule of cool" and the practicality/logic of power armor. Near as I can tell that's the only retcon from fallout 4 that I'm 100% for.

As I understand it, the outer shell of the T51b is still only around level IV (real life armour designed to handle .308 and such), and as such it should not be so grossly huge.

Every other game to date has portrayed it as man portable, likely it can be disasembled, like the 'broken' power armour suit in Fallout 1.

 

[R.Graves]

As I understand it, the outer shell of the T51b is still only around level IV (real life armour designed to handle .308 and such), and as such it should not be so grossly huge.

Every other game to date has portrayed it as man portable, likely it can be disasembled, like the 'broken' power armour suit in Fallout 1.

Iirc the t-51 deflected lasers (at least according to the lore) I have no idea what a .308 is beyond it being a bullet caliber. So I don't know what you're saying there.

Would you do me a favor and define 'man portable'. And why you say it can likely be disassembled.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Iirc the t-51 deflected lasers (at least according to the lore) I have no idea what a .308 is beyond it being a bullet caliber. So I don't know what you're saying there.

Would you do me a favor and define 'man portable'. And why you say it can likely be disassembled.

The T51b explicitly has an outer silver coating designed to dissapate energy weapons fire.

To note, energy weapons and normal guns have vastly different methods of doing damage, and fallout has some artistic license on how the armour works.

.308 is a round which in theory, should be able to penetrate T51b, due to it having more than 2500 joules of energy.

In Fallout 1, we see a disassembled power armour suit in the brotherhood complex, which while huge, implies that it can be broken down for transport.

 

[R.Graves]

Broken down for transport? That makes no sense to me. Why have 5 heavy things to carry when one can just use the suit and carry even more things? I assumed it was disassembled because it was broke AF or as a troubleshooting method.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Broken down for transport? That makes no sense to me. Why have 5 heavy things to carry when one can just use the suit and carry even more things? I assumed it was disassembled because it was broke AF or as a troubleshooting method.

First off, not everyone can just slap on a suit of power armour (At least, in 3/NV, 1 and 2 had no restrictions).

Secondly, what if the suit is non-functional? And you still need to bring it somewhere?

Lastly, what if you already have a suit of power armour on? You can't slap another suit on top! ;P

 

[R.Graves]

First off, not everyone can just slap on a suit of power armour (At least, in 3/NV, 1 and 2 had no restrictions).

Secondly, what if the suit is non-functional? And you still need to bring it somewhere?

Lastly, what if you already have a suit of power armour on? You can't slap another suit on top! ;P

1. If we don't consider 3 Canon (why would we when 4 doesn't) then fallout 2 becomes the only unavoidable case where one can just slap on a suit of power armor. So I guess we could consider power armour training Canon.

2. Okay... But why would that be necessary prewar what with vehicles and whatnot? Think about how many heavy things we don't dissasemble for transport when the crap out on us. Cars, any vehicle really, refrigerators, furniture, air conditioners, etc.

3. Why would you ever have two sets of power armor?

Honestly the disassembled for transport thing doesn't make sense especially since it just multiplies the shit you have to carry. Gonna need one strong ass backpack.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

1. If we don't consider 3 Canon (why would we when 4 doesn't) then fallout 2 becomes the only unavoidable case where one can just slap on a suit of power armor. So I guess we could consider power armour training Canon.

2. Okay... But why would that be necessary prewar what with vehicles and whatnot? Think about how many heavy things we don't dissasemble for transport when the crap out on us. Cars, any vehicle really, refrigerators, furniture, air conditioners, etc.

3. Why would you ever have two sets of power armor?

Honestly the disassembled for transport thing doesn't make sense especially since it just multiplies the shit you have to carry. Gonna need one strong ass backpack.

Disassembling it makes the volume far smaller, and thus make it semi-reasonable to stuff in bags.

And even pre-war, what if a suit is broken in combat? And the only way to keep it from enemy hands is to carry it back from the front lines?

Pre-war armies in fallout are a little silly, we never see a vast amount of mechanisation.