A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on earth:

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[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-01 AT 05:02AM (GMT)[p]*When I say crashing I mean that the screen freezes and no amount of waiting will clear the problem. Only pull the plug and restart.

My PC is crashing. I've replaced the motherboard, processor, floppy drive (three times), and video card. And I've also spent more than $300 on "techs" who claimed to have fixed the problem, but whom I think just licked themselves while starting at thehun.com for three hours at a time. But I digress...

The Problem:

My PC crashes when I play any game that runs in Windows. I can run Nesticle, Wasteland, or any game that runs in Dos shell but not any game that runs in windows.

My PC will sometimes crash in Word, and when I am on the net and I click a link on a web page while someone sends me an IM (this must happen simultainously, and with any IMer I use, AIM, ICQ, Trillain).

I think this may be a clue:

I recently bought Age of Empires Gold. When I click "Install" my PC freezes. It says it is doing a Hardware check and just dies.

As if this wasn't enough:

My Floppy Drive is also dead. I've replaced the Floppy Drive (three times), the cable, and the motherboard. I have power and the cable is not on backwards. Windows and BIOS recognises it. But I get the error message that says the drive isn't ready.

I've also reinstalled Windows four or five times to try and clear up these problems. Thus far nothing has worked. I'll list my system specs then pray that someone can help.

Athlon 1.2Ghz
196 MB RAM (PC 100)
64MB Geforce 2 MX400 AGP
Monster Sound MX300
Asus MoBo
Seagate 6 Gig HDD ( I also have a Western Digital 45GB HDD but I can't install the drivers for it without a working floppy, CD Burning was a no go)

Ok... someone please impress me. I have no idea what to do next now that the "expert techs" have failed.

True Raven

PS: In case you couldn't tell I did build that system myself. I recently upgraded the Mobo and Processor which is when the heavy crashing started. My earlier setup didn't freeze as often but the floppy still didn't work and my games still froze.

Thanks for any help anyone can give.
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-01 AT 10:27AM (GMT)[p]Dunno what to say about the floppy drive, really. Kind of a stumper on me, too.

As for being able to play DOS games and not Windows, it can be a few things.

1. DirectX. Some versions are screwy. I've found that DX6 is perhaps the best unless you NEED something higher DX8 has settled down finally for me.
2. (Most likely, a LOT of people run into heat problems) Heat problems. In DOS, graphics acceleration isn't really used. It's when you use more demanding programs the card can perhaps heat up and cause a system lock.
3. Graphics card driver, sometimes can play up, and 'latest drivers' isn't always the best.
4. Oleaut32.dll, see if you can get a later version.
5. Norton Antivirus. Norton's products, to put it bluntly, as of late they have been really sucking ass. A glitch happened on a friend's laptop in the operation of Norton's System Tools and he had to format the drive because it took a shit across almost all of the drive clusters.
6. Bad or corrupted RAM. I've had it happen a couple of times. Depends on how it crashes. What is it? BSoD, lock, system restart, Windows protection fault, or a page error?

These are things to check I can list off the top of my head.
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

I thank you much Rosh.

I thought about getting more RAM. Or new RAM. At startup it counts all the RAM correctly but with it being so cheap I really don't think buying another $40 worth would kill me.

I just installed Norton Utilites to try and fix the crashing problem. Although it has stabelized a bit I still crash before my precious games.

I haven't updated my Drivers in a while. I'll try that next.

Heat shouldn't be a problem. I've got more fans running in my case than I know what to do with.

Oleaut32.dll - Don't know what this file does but I'll try and track it down.

Got Direct-X 7.0. I'll see about upgrading or down grading to see if that works. I should have a dozen copies lying around somewhere.

The crash is a complete lockup. I cannot move the cursor or anything else so I have to manually pull the plug and start up again. Needless to say I've had a few dozen Boot Errors because of this.

Thanks again, I'll update you as to what worked, or didn't work.
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

I'm guessing it could be the ram you have. You have 196, meaning at least 2 dimms. I have heard that if the ram is from different manufacturers, then it could possibly cause your computer to freeze.

And btw, what version of windows are you using?
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

>Athlon 1.2Ghz
>196 MB RAM (PC 100)
>64MB Geforce 2 MX400 AGP
>Monster Sound MX300
>Asus MoBo
>Seagate 6 Gig HDD ( I
>also have a Western Digital
>45GB HDD but I can't
>install the drivers for it
>without a working floppy, CD
>Burning was a no go)

Take a look at your heatsink and fan on your CPU. Unless you specified specifically the heatsink and fan and did your research on what fans and heatsinks are worthy of your processor, you probably got some cheapo $5 heatsink and fan the dealer gave you.

Inadequate heat dissipation on the CPU, especially AMD's Athlon CPUs which run extremely hot, can cause lots of instability. If you've ever seen the video on www.tomshardware.com where the heatsink and fan was removed from an Athlon CPU you will know that Athlon CPUs can burn through the motherboard if inadequately cooled.

Here's a test: Remove the side of your case (if you haven't already) and see if you have better stability. Most likely you've got a POS case too that doesn't provide adequate airflow past your inadequate CPU heatsink and fan.

Oh yeah, did you apply thermal grease between your heatsink and CPU? It is very important to have it (the thinnest layer possible, it is only supposed to fill the microscopic gaps).

I can speak from personal experience to say that inadequate cooling can cause instability. My AMD K6-III 450mhz processor suffered from instability because of a cheap fan. I remedied it by using a case fan and mounting over the heatsink.

You will need to buy a much better fan than a case fan though.

If you want an Athlon heatsink/fan that is both powerful and quiet (a very rare combo), grab the Millennium Glaciator II at http://www.millennium-thermal.com/start.htm . It may cost you some money, but it is worth the stability. Make sure you get the Arctic Silver II thermal grease.

-Xotor-

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RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

Try replacing all other components as well, such as sound card and network card. You never know...

I also agree about the CPU cooling. Does your motherboard have hardware monitoring? It should, if it's an Asus. Check the temperatures with some utility. I also hope you're using thermal paste, something a lot of people forget when upgrading processors by themselves. Arctic Silver II is good, and you should be able to get it cheap from most computer stores.
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

>Try replacing all other components as
>well, such as sound card
>and network card. You never
>know...
>
>I also agree about the CPU
>cooling. Does your motherboard have
>hardware monitoring? It should, if
>it's an Asus. Check the
>temperatures with some utility. I
>also hope you're using thermal
>paste, something a lot of
>people forget when upgrading processors
>by themselves. Arctic Silver II
>is good, and you should
>be able to get it
>cheap from most computer stores.

Well I wouldn't say "cheap," at around $8 a tube, you're paying roughly $1 for one gram of the stuff.

-Xotor-

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RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

But it has enough compound for over 20 processors, so it's relatively cheap... and besides, one tube only contains 3 grams, so it's more than $1 for a gram.
 
RE: A puzzle for those who know PCs better than anyone on ea

>But it has enough compound for
>over 20 processors, so it's
>relatively cheap... and besides, one
>tube only contains 3 grams,
>so it's more than $1
>for a gram.

Oh yeah that's right... it's $8, not 8 grams...

The chances that you'll be using the paste on like 20 processors, or at least while the paste is still usable (does it "expire?"), is kind of slim unless you own a shop or have a lot of friends who need it.

-Xotor-

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Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

I can now enter my games BUT this is where it gets even more weird.

I can run games (still cannot install) but when I get into the actual "gameplay screen" I can only play for about three seconds. Let me give you an example:

I open Fallout, movie plays, opening is just fine. Absolutely no problems.

I open the "Load" area. Still no problems.

I click on the game I want to load. Still no problem.

I get to the game screen where I can control the charector. Still no problem.

Now I can sit here all day and will not freeze, lock up or anything. As soon as I begin to press buttons on the mouse or the keyboard... then within three seconds I completely freeze.

Does this isolate the problem for anyone now?

****************************

I've taken off the cover and played with moving wires to allow optimum airflow. My case is very large and with a few fans built in so I think that I can safely rule out heat.

My heat grease was applied. I has a very small thumb-print in the center of it but not enough to leave a bare spot.

****************************

Last but not least:

I think I am going to buy a new stick of RAM. One stick of 256 will cost me about $40 bucks and will rule out RAM problems one way or another. I am using two sticks by different manufactuers so I'll tear them out and toss in one stick to see if it helps.

I have my RAM in Slots 2 and 3. Will this cause the problem? I don't see that it could, as I assume that as soon as I load up a game all the info is sent to memory immediately but am I wrong in this assumption?

True Raven
 
RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

Not a RAM problem.

I even bought a new stick just to make sure. Good Goddamn this is frustrating!
 
RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

>Not a RAM problem.
>
>I even bought a new stick
>just to make sure. Good
>Goddamn this is frustrating!

Oh yeah, what OS are you running and have you checked ASUS's website for recent BIOS upgrades that might fix things?

-Xotor-

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RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

Hm....

Here is something else that hasn't been suggested - you could have a corrupted hard drive. I've had that once and just like the car bug in FO2, it'll start to go weird for no apparent reason, like crashing or freezing just for doing something routine. If you shut off and restart you PC too many times in a short time frame, the power surge could really cook some hardware, particular your HD. A corrupted HD is a big problem, because it'll cause havoc in all of your programs, esp. in windows and their famous registry files.(I should know, it happened to me:() Your computer think something is at one place, while it's actually at another.

First thing is to check out if you have something like quick time or real player, these programs tend to try hogging all the file format into using their program to open, thus creating confusion.
Second thing is to check your power supply, you may have different wattage needs from your hardware. This tends to happen when people put stuff together for themselves. IF you got this, well......, good luck. Because you just might have fried all your hardware, you are better off buying a new one.
Third, get your HD checked out. If you have a corrupted HD, then it's a diffcult problem to fix. You can always try rescuing all the files you want and reformat it.(Ack!!! Don't do this if you don't know what you are doing.) Or, you can always pick up a new HD, unless you still have the warrenty paper lying around somewhere..:).

Well, it's just my suggestion, it may not solve your problems. Just remember, most technology weren't meant to be user friendly when they designed it, I mean look at most computer languages(COBALT anyone?;-)), very few engineers create or design things like HTML. If the invention works, why mess with it. Man, we can really learn a few things from the Japanese, esp. the way they "kaizen" all their products. I can dream...

Have fun.:)

Starseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

>Well, it's just my suggestion, it
>may not solve your problems.
> Just remember, most technology
>weren't meant to be user
>friendly when they designed it,
>I mean look at most
>computer languages(COBALT anyone?;-)), very few
>engineers create or design things
>like HTML. If the
>invention works, why mess with
>it. Man, we can
>really learn a few things
>from the Japanese, esp. the
>way they "kaizen" all their
>products. I can dream...

Heh, but making stuff nice comes at a price, usually a monitary one. Many people comment that PCs are not very attractive, being, up until recently, usually beige in color and with lots of cords and other stuff, whereas Apple computers often look nice and have designer cases, components, etc.

Which costs more though? The Apple computers. Usually people who invest in PCs use it for its power, not for its looks. Also Apple attracted a large designer crowd which liked stylish stuff, even at a higher cost (since as designers they usually don't pay for the computer).

Nowadays both worlds are merging as components are becoming so cheap and powerful computers don't cost very much compared to what they used to.

-Xotor-

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RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

Did you know the Apple G4 cube has been admitted into the Smithsonian Museum of anthropology? It's suppose to represent a era when the art of form meets the tool of function. Sega's VF3 was also admitted(to my surprise) to show as how 3D environment simulate reality as an art form.

Anyway, you have the Dotcom boom to thank for the merge of form and function. Hey, engineers got rich from all that stock options, and they want to show the world geeks can look good too. Art is no longer just for the beautiful people anymore. But, very few of them actually design the new toys, they hire professional marketing and industrial design studios for all the looks. The cost is negligeible compare to how much you can jack it up to. If you went back into the history of the Xbox design, you'll find out that they spend almost 2 years(more or less) just to get the shape and color right.

But I think it all worked out for the best, because it allows all the liberal arts people to have better opptunerities. Such as, graphic design, website design, content editor, 3D animator, and etc.., you no longer have to be a hermit to be a writer, nor do you have to be starving artiste.

Starseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

>But I think it all worked
>out for the best, because
>it allows all the liberal
>arts people to have better
>opptunerities. Such as, graphic
>design, website design, content editor,
>3D animator, and etc.., you
>no longer have to be
>a hermit to be a
>writer, nor do you have
>to be starving artiste.

I don't know if sleek designs and all that worked out all for the better, but the huge drop in prices and the dot-com bust that left a lot of the big names groping for customers.

I love what AMD has done to Intel. Back in the day ol' Intel would charge like $600 for a processor that wasn't even the best they had to offer. Now they're forced to drop prices to sub-$200 prices or even lower. The thing is though, they still can't compare.

If it wasn't for the inferior x86 architecture, ol' AMD could REALLY strut its stuff. One of the only reasons AMD's Athlon cores are so huge is because they have to contend with the problematic and annoying x86 instruction set. All processors nowadays are post-RISC, not CISC, but they're still using the crappy x86 CISC instruction sets..

-Xotor-

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RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

Actually, I wasn't just talking about hardware, I was talking about the overall picture. Sure, the dotcom bubbles may have burst 2 years ago, but that does not mean the networking, the opptunerities have stop rolling. Putting 9/11 and our current economic downturn aside, the dotcom rush has created a lot of jobs for formerly dead end career choices. 80-90% of liberal arts graduates(I am gerenalizing here) have trouble finding high end jobs, esp. the artists and writers. What are you going to do if you are a English major? Teach? The dotcom rush has taught the engineers that they can't be successful just for functions alone, you really need to pay attention to the form of things. I think it has really brought the opposite ends together in the middle.
Anyway, it also created a lot of buzz and opptunerities for the <30 crowd, and as a younger generation, I am very happy for how something turn out. Seniority is no longer the biggest issue, nor does connections, so as long as you have the skills, talents, and the smarts, you can make it out there. You will get no complaints from me.

Starseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Allow me to add a new wrinkle:

Windows 98 SE

Got some good drivers from ASUS.

Going to try that HDD trick. Mine is over 5 years old so it may be casuing the disturbance.
 
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