A vertibird vehicle with a separate "Bird Interior&quot

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µlight

First time out of the vault
Before I commit myself to making this mod, I'd like to know if there are any known issues that might render it moot. To that end:

  • - Can two "vehicles" exist on the same map?

    - Can an exit to another map (in this case, the "vertibird interior") be bound to a "sprite-section" (I don't know what the real term is) of a vehicle, as with a ladder "sprite"? That is, can a section of a vehicle do the same thing as a ladder?

    - The Highwayman creates a map dot when it runs out of fuel. Is it possible for a vehicle to create multiple map dots under different circumstances, e.g. a "parked vehicle" dot for an abandoned but fueled vehicle?

Thanks in advance for any information you might be able to provide. If anyone's interested in seeing some of the other ideas I have for this mod (albeit in an unprocessed format), there's a link here.
 
What are you talking about, like having a mod that adds the vertibird as an alternative/addition to the car? There was a mod like that already, buggier than the underside of a 2/4 on the ground in the tropics, but it sorta worked.

I'm not sure about having a separate map for it, though. Seems to me like what you're talking about would be tiny, too tiny (given the scale of the Vertibird) to accomplish uncrowded, unblocked maps with anything over one or two NPC followers.

That said, I don't know about two vehicles on the same map, but I don't really see why it wouldn't be possible, if you had a map for each situation (with the car without the vertibird, without the car without the vertibird, with the car with the vertibird, without the car without the vertibird) but it'd require a _lot_ of map addition.

As for whether your second question is possible, so long as it calls the right script I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be able to act like a ladder. That's probably the easiest bit to arrange of the whole deal.

Now, as for your last question, I believe that's a yes. If you try to leave your car in the middle of nowhere, to my recollection, it'll leave a map circle. Again, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Either way, I'm sure it could be accomplished one way or another if one wanted.
 
Unfortunately, this whole thing is a lot harder than Recon suggests. Adding an additional piece of scenery (i.e. vehicle) to every map isn't necessary, though. Just like the car, it could be created wherever the player goes by the map script. That's the easy part.

But, I think there is only room in the game to accommodate one fuel system if you plan on using vehicles to cross the worldmap. There is a mod in which the player can get and use a vertibird. It has it's own fuel system. However, it does not travel across the worldmap. The mod works because it uses scripts like a type of teleportation device. This is the way two (or more) vehicles could be on the same map without any problems.

Going to a small, interior map (kinda like the player ship mod in Arcanum) isn't possible, I think. You can use the scenery like a ladder to go to another map. However, once at the other (interior) map, there is no way to tell the game exactly which map to go back to. At least, I don't think there is. Exit grids can only be set to go to one place.

Also, if you leave your car in the middle of nowhere, and it isn't just out of fuel, you lose the car (except in special encounter maps).
 
MIB88 said:
Going to a small, interior map (kinda like the player ship mod in Arcanum) isn't possible, I think. You can use the scenery like a ladder to go to another map. However, once at the other (interior) map, there is no way to tell the game exactly which map to go back to. At least, I don't think there is. Exit grids can only be set to go to one place.
Click to expand...
Couldn't it be done in a similar way as in your mod?

Enter the verti map.
Use computer or navigation system or whatever.
Choose a destination, set global variable corresponding to chosen map.
To exit verti on correct map, use scenery object (script checks the global_var and teleports to the right place).
Or if possible a spatial script might be used as a fake exit grid.
 
Hmmm. That might be possible... Maybe. The only thing is that, technically, you wouldn't travel to the new map until you left the vertibird. But, I don't know how to tell the game to load a map after the interior vertibird map. You would have to choose your destination from the vertibird controls, then exit. Or, you could walk into the vertibird, see the interior and operate the controls, and then you would appear outside the vertibird at the new map like things work now.
 
MIB88 said:
I think there is only room in the game to accommodate one fuel system if you plan on using vehicles to cross the worldmap.
Click to expand...
By this, do you mean the car portrait at the bottom right corner of the screen, the variable that tells the vehicle and green gauge how much fuel is left, or both?

MIB88 said:
However, once at the other (interior) map, there is no way to tell the game exactly which map to go back to.
Click to expand...
Bearing in mind that I'm ignorant of Mapper, would it help for the vehicle exit to also be scenery? Is there not a way to store a lastmap value in memory and either pass it back to the "ladder" or change it after takeoff-landing and then pass it back to the "ladder"?

Also, here is a new wrinkle: the vertibird will need to be able to pass over the coastline barrier. While I'm kind of worried about whether that can be done, if it can, it opens up some decent mapping opportunities- islands. More specifically, the Farallon islands. Section four of that article reveals that they were used to store nuclear waste.
 
@ MIB88
Technically no, but the player won't know that. :)
The teleporting is just delayed to when you exit the vertibird. Or were you thinking it would be possible to look outside?

I'm not sure what would be a problem.

USE Verti, get teleported to vertibird interior map.
On the interior map you use the vertibird controls, it brings up the menu of locations.
Lets say you choose Arroyo, then set G_var 2000 to 1 (if Modoc set to 2 etc..). Exit menu.
Still on the interior map use door or whatever scenery to exit. In use_p_proc for that script check the value of G_var 2000. If it's 1 then teleport to Arroyo the same way as in the vertimod you use, minus the menu screen of course.

Or am I missing or misunderstanding something?
 
µlight said:
MIB88 said:
I think there is only room in the game to accommodate one fuel system if you plan on using vehicles to cross the worldmap.
Click to expand...
By this, do you mean the car portrait at the bottom right corner of the screen, the variable that tells the vehicle and green gauge how much fuel is left, or both?
Click to expand...

I don't know about how that portrait works. I was referring only to the green bar.

As for the idea about the scenery object, Darek, I was originally thinking of it like that. Then, for some reason, something at the back of my mind was saying it wouldn't work. I can't put my finger on it. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Might be interesting... but, what does doing that add to the game?

Traveling across the worldmap in the vertibird is the big issue... and not just because of the fuel tank issue. I really don't see that happening. And there will be no flying to any islands this way. It doesn't just mean redoing worldmap tiles to (specifically, those .msk files) to not block player travel. But, it means figuring out a way to tell the game to load up that different tile if/when the player has a vertibird.
 
MIB88 said:
Hmmm. That might be possible... Maybe. The only thing is that, technically, you wouldn't travel to the new map until you left the vertibird. But, I don't know how to tell the game to load a map after the interior vertibird map. You would have to choose your destination from the vertibird controls, then exit. Or, you could walk into the vertibird, see the interior and operate the controls, and then you would appear outside the vertibird at the new map like things work now.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you could have several identical 'vertibird interior' maps, each connected to a different city/destination. Using the controls moves the player to another one of these maps, so when they exit they're at a new location.
 
If you forget about the world map travel, there should be no problem in teleporting to an off-shore position. The player wouldn't be able to get off the island without the vertibird then, but that is exactly what should happen anyway.

Problem is, you're limited to a fixed list of places you can travel to, so no random encounters (which don't make sense for air travel anyway) but also no special encounters.

A workaround could be (depending on whether these are stored in variables accessible to scripts) checking whether the player has been to certain places and hiding the option if they haven't been to the place in question. Special encounters could work the same way -- there'd just not be a chance to encounter them accidentally (while in the Vertibird) then.
 
Ashmo said:
If you forget about the world map travel, there should be no problem in teleporting to an off-shore position. The player wouldn't be able to get off the island without the vertibird then, but that is exactly what should happen anyway.

Problem is, you're limited to a fixed list of places you can travel to, so no random encounters (which don't make sense for air travel anyway) but also no special encounters.
Click to expand...

Oh, no. Teleporting to any number of locations can easily be scripted. Right now the vertibird in the MM doesn't go everywhere just because the code hasn't been written. But, there are no limits. Even for the island, an option could be to fly there, even though the player hasn't been there yet. And you're right: there would be no random encounters. The only real problem really is the worldmap travel.
 
MIB88 said:
there would be no random encounters.
Click to expand...

Actually, I had in mind some vertibird-specific random encounters involving either Enclave soldiers or heavily armed rogues/bandits/raiders forcing the craft down; during these events, the vertibird exit would lead to a rand. encounter map holding a large number of soldiers/raiders/et cetera.
Should that prove realistic, I'd also like to include a few bird-specific special encounters (a sheer cliffside, abandoned ships, the inside of a UFO, and such places as are only accessible from the air).

Although, with the difficulty or potential impossibility of implementing worldmap travel and vehicle-based loading of
MIB88 said:
.msk files
Click to expand...
, it sort of looks like a Christmas-is-cancelled situation.

Sorry to speak from ignorance, but I have to wonder if there isn't a way to store the fuel value for each vehicle in a seperate variable, check which vehicle the PC is about to use, and pass the vehicle-specific fuel value to the gauge var based on which vehicle it is.
 
µlight said:
Sorry to speak from ignorance, but I have to wonder if there isn't a way to store the fuel value for each vehicle in a seperate variable, check which vehicle the PC is about to use, and pass the vehicle-specific fuel value to the gauge var based on which vehicle it is.
Click to expand...

I've given some thought to this while talking with others about this while I've been working on my project. I could see no way around it. The speed of travel across the worldmap does take into consideration a couple of global variables. The actual fuel level is not. Now, if somebody knows where this information is stored within the executable and can create some sort of hack for this, then maybe something can be done. I mean, it's easy to create a new global variable to account for a fuel level for a given vehicle. However, I can't script a way for that fuel level to be read to properly move the player across the worldmap.
 
About the random encounter, it could be done the same way the caravan drive are handled :
either you are teleported directly to the objective map (no encounter)
or you have 4 or 3 or 2 or 1 encounter, depending on the random number you rolled.

As for the fuel, can't we just assign a new fuel level (100 Units), and say that, traveling from there to there cost around 10 units fuel, from there to there around 20, if not enought fuel, the IA of the aircraft wont let you go...
 
I don't know how to be any clearer. A fuel tank itself is not the problem. Easy script: if player adds 50 energy cells to the vehicle, then give fuel tank 50 units. Easy. Traveling across the worldmap is different. How do you tell the game to read the from that fuel tank? How do you tell the game how far 50 units will take you on the worldmap? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Like I said, 'teleportation' (travel from location A to location B instantaneously, then subtract some amount of fuel) works and is easy. Worldmap travel has issues.

Adding in encounters like described earlier is possible, but it would not work like a caravan. It might seem like teleportation with the caravans, but you actually move across the worldmap. Check it out sometime. If you run away from an encounter, you are on the worldmap somewhere along the caravan route.

Anyway, new maps would need to be drawn up. And they could not have exit grids. If they do, someone's gonna try to do something tricky and it'll break their game. Without an exit grid, the player would be forced to use the vertibird again at the conclusion of combat (or whatever the encounter is).
 
Adding in encounters like described earlier is possible, but it would not work like a caravan. It might seem like teleportation with the caravans, but you actually move across the worldmap. Check it out sometime. If you run away from an encounter, you are on the worldmap somewhere along the caravan route.
Click to expand...

it is actually a simulation of world map travel. if you roll a 3 for the Broken Hill to Vault city travel you have 3 Encounters, with X, Y coordinates
#define Broken_VC_3_1_x (1200)
#define Broken_VC_3_1_y (800)
#define Broken_VC_3_2_x (1250)
#define Broken_VC_3_2_y (625)
#define Broken_VC_3_3_x (1300)
#define Broken_VC_3_3_y (400)

if you flee at the first encounter, you appear at the 1200/ 800 location on the world map, with + 7 days or so on the counter.
if you flee on the second you appear at the 1250/ 625 +14 days, and you would be closer of your objective etc, etc
Making it apear you travel, but in fact you are not.
For the Vault city=>Broken hill, the same encounter apply, but reverse.
If you roll a 0, you get +21 days, and you get directly to the objective map.
So it would just be needed for "someone" to apply the caravan script but for all the cities.


And for the Fuel :
Like I said, 'teleportation' (travel from location A to location B instantaneously, then subtract some amount of fuel) works and is easy.
Click to expand...

Like you said, each Vault city=>Broken hill = 21 units (1 for each days) etc etc,

But to be honest I don't see that coming any time soon, cause it would mean that each city should point to every other location and therefore a very organised mind to script... But it is possible. So maybe your idea is a lot more realistic.
 
Grayswandir said:
it is actually a simulation of world map travel. if you roll a 3 for the Broken Hill to Vault city travel you have 3 Encounters, with X, Y coordinates...

So it would just be needed for "someone" to apply the caravan script but for all the cities.
Click to expand...

Wow. I stand corrected. I didn't know that first part about it being only simulated travel. I thought it was actually traveling because I thought I was on random squares when I fled some of those situations.

Yeah. A lot of scripting. Ok, one more thing to add to my ever-growing list of things to add to the mod someday.
 
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