AC is not so good for Unarmed, and other thoughts

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el_jefe_of_ny

Still Mildly Glowing
I noticed how a 10 agility character with hardened Power armour gets hit 95% of the time by most monsters in the game. The reason is that HTH characters are 0 spaces away from the target.

I am now going through fallout2. I have leather armour and AC 9. My girl gets hit all the time by rats, and anything above a rat hits it almost all of the time. The DR and dr% neutralize things.

So, I can see why the special hth skill where it increase AC between rounds is needed. With the best regular stats and armour, you get hit non-stop being 0 spaces away from enemies. I imagine you might get a few misses here and there if you have the new skill (which I dont have yet).

So, I suggest traits like Jinxed and Kamikazee. I played a low perception, (4), character who destroyed in fallout1. The sequence is "only good for the first round" mantra on these forums is steers people wrong. Well, for hth types, you kill the main monster in the first round to win. If you can kill one monster in a group before taking any damage, you normally win. If you dont, you probably will take a lot of damage. You should have 6 endurance and maybe Lifegiver. Those are needed to give you 20 or so more hps for losing the first round of fighting.

Also, sneak and pulling work great in Fallout1. I havent needed to pull in F2 yet as nothing is that dangerous with Sulik and Vic supporting. But, even if you get caught sneaking, it is a great way to pull just one monster out. If somehow you could get a free round in, either after the monsters opening round getting a 2nd one, or right away, you could kill monsters much quicker.

It is true that even for Fast shot/Mellee in Fallout1, the free movement perk is better than 1 AP. I can engage combat by tossing a grenade and duck around a corner much easier. Then I wait for all the monsters to get in the 0-3 range and well, decimate them as they are forced to go around corners. Good use for grenades. You can be pretty awful at tossing them, but they wake up 1-2 front guys to run after you.

Just some thoughts! can't wait to see how the between-turn AC bonus for HTH works out. I might even get dodger and try to stack to make AC workable.


Another thought is Sex Appeal. I made two characters with 8 charisma both female. One is a Sex Appeal other is not. The Sex Appeal one makes a lot more money hooking, getting better prices and well, just has more cash. It does a nice job in the beginning levels so far compared to not having it.

Another thought is Stealing. I made one with, the other without. Stealing makes my gal wealthy. I wouldnt worry about it so much if one was HTH/Melee as you dont need ammo or upgraded weaponry ever. (the power cells in Fallout1 were cheap and so endgame I never had to purchase any). I think Stealing is really worth a Tag for....

Fast Shot in F2. Yes, you use like 1.5x more bullets to kill things or even 2x. Those cost a lot and slow down your ability to purchase Radaway, Stimpacks, the best armour sold, and extra ammo, things that mean you have to do a lot more planning before venturing. Stealing has given me a huge chunk of spare change.


Conclusion: Stealing and being a Whore are awesome.

I think the makers of Fallout2 dated girls from Long Island. Heck, it works for them.

Having fun playing the game :) It has been since the 1990's since I played either.
 
I like this thread, one of the more original and insightful posts into the gameplay of Fallout 1 and 2.

I've never considered sneak and steal to be that useful, to be honest, especially not in combat. I guess I should rethink my position and check it out.

Especially the part about sequence.
 
A lot of the reason for the hating on things like sequence, endurance, and stealing is because people are commenting from a pure character optimization point of view. They want to squeeze out every available point and don't mind reloading the same fight or steal sequence a hundred times to get an optimal outcome. A lot of your insights are pretty useful for the casual player.

Sneak and melee can be brutal in Fallout 2, especially when Slayer and Silent Death combine. You essentially get the "free round" you want, by killing a monster from behind as its friends fail to notice you're there.
 
JesusC said:
A lot of the reason for the hating on things like sequence, endurance, and stealing is because people are commenting from a pure character optimization point of view. They want to squeeze out every available point and don't mind reloading the same fight or steal sequence a hundred times to get an optimal outcome.
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Someone who does that wouldn't need to optimize their character. And if you're playing an iron man game, having lots of HP through Endurance or Lifegiver becomes optimization.
 
Per said:
JesusC said:
A lot of the reason for the hating on things like sequence, endurance, and stealing is because people are commenting from a pure character optimization point of view. They want to squeeze out every available point and don't mind reloading the same fight or steal sequence a hundred times to get an optimal outcome.
Click to expand...

Someone who does that wouldn't need to optimize their character. And if you're playing an iron man game, having lots of HP through Endurance or Lifegiver becomes optimization.
Click to expand...

What?

:confused:
 
Thanks for compliments, dudes!

I remade my girl hth puncher with 2 Endurance and 6 Perception.

6 Str
2 Endur
6 Perc
8 Charisma
8 Int
8 Luck

I learned to enjoy luck in the game. I got Explorer for the first time and high luck in my last fallout1 game. I found lots of fun things in the desert with a minimal amount of travel. I never found the things I did in years past when I played. Explorer is a 1:1 perk, you get something out of it 100% of the time when you choose it. It might not be "uber" build, but really, can you somehow not beat the game eventually without uber-ness? I realized that this past year, you can make a slightly hobbled character or oddball and make it work well with patience.
 
el_jefe_of_ny said:
I learned to enjoy luck in the game. I got Explorer for the first time and high luck in my last fallout1 game. I found lots of fun things in the desert with a minimal amount of travel. I never found the things I did in years past when I played. Explorer is a 1:1 perk, you get something out of it 100% of the time when you choose it. It might not be "uber" build, but really, can you somehow not beat the game eventually without uber-ness? I realized that this past year, you can make a slightly hobbled character or oddball and make it work well with patience.
Click to expand...

i agree. Though i generally play Ironman so as is mentioned above, EN goes to at least 8 and all perks go to 'staying alive perks' like lifegiver and toughness
 
el_jefe_of_ny said:
I did not, I made two replies.
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Well, technically one of them wasn't a reply, but anyway two consecutive posts is the definition of double posting here. Use the edit function instead to reduce clutter.
 
el_jefe_of_ny said:
I did not, I made two replies.
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Do not question the all-mighty Per.

el_jefe_of_ny said:
Fast Shot in F2.
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I use Fast Shot the majority of the time, actually; yeah, you lose targeted shots, but you don't need to hit the eyes when you're running up to point-blank range and burst-firing. It's like a super-melee character, really. Also, Fast Shot seems like it'd be a prerequisite for a good Big Guns build; they don't have targeted shots anyway.

Edit: lol i spel gud
 
Per said:
el_jefe_of_ny said:
I did not, I made two replies.
Click to expand...

Well, technically one of them wasn't a reply, but anyway two consecutive posts is the definition of double posting here. Use the edit function instead to reduce clutter.
Click to expand...

how could edit quote two people? I use kindergarten rules, you always give each person their own box of crayons and milk and cookies. Makes people happy normally.

Yeah, I wonder if I don't tag Big Guns can I ever use them effectively? Perception 7 Agility 10

I got Gifted. I wish I could make a build that did not use Gifted. It would give me a lot more skills. jeez.
 
Gifted is by far the most overpowered of the traits, which is why it's so popular. Per's walkthroughs have some ideas for non-gifted characters, though. Yes, you could use Big Guns without tagging it, if you like spending double the skill points on your combat skill -- which, at least for me, is always my highest skill. Doesn't sound like a good idea, you know?

Edit: Also, forgot to mention, you'd have to be crazy to get Gifted if you're playing a "stupid" game. Too few skill points already, as Per mentions in his guides. You should check 'em out (character creation parts, I mean) if you haven't already.
 
DGT said:
Gifted is by far the most overpowered of the traits, which is why it's so popular. Per's walkthroughs have some ideas for non-gifted characters, though. Yes, you could use Big Guns without tagging it, if you like spending double the skill points on your combat skill -- which, at least for me, is always my highest skill. Doesn't sound like a good idea, you know?
Click to expand...

I think the only non gifted types are those that follow strict sniper rules. perception of base 6 and agility base 8 is good enough. You could get 6 charisma 8 int and just go low ENdurance and str. I cant imagine no gifted on a HTH build though who might like to do lots of dialogue too.
 
I've wondering about armor class too. Seems like every enemy has a 95% chance to hit me all the time. If I have the space, I like to take Kamikaze. Sequence may only matter for the first turn, but it can be crippling to have your enemies move twice in a row, and it's really convenient to get the chance to move twice myself.

Do you need a high sneak skill to pull correctly? Sometimes it works just right... other times I end up pulling the entire group.

Ironman games are fun for the extra challenge, but grinding levels in the wasteland to amass HP gets boring fast. I've also given up on NPCs, they're just temporary meat shields.
 
Oh... now I get what "pulling" is supposed to mean. And now I get what sequence does. I always thought it was a bug or something when I got two turns in a row. :mrgreen:
 
You know, I think it is :) I think it was suppsed to be opening round asist, but it often is they do a shot, then you get 2 sometimes. I dont know how long this goes on for as the game monsters get more advanced?
 
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