alternative history mod for Fallout 2 idea/discussion/pipe-dream

[trollworkout]

One of my favourite mod types that I always wanted to play is alternative history mod where you could play as someone other than the default story and default dude. For example play as a ghoul, supermutant, ncr soldier, vault city citizen, beggar, raider, robot, mechanic , scientist , store owner, and so forth. And despite this you could still finish the game by finishing the main quest.

I have created a similar mod for Fallout 3 and was really fun to keep playing alternative lifestyles. It made the game endlessly playable. I had about 20 or so alternative beginning choices including Ghoul, child, mechanic (older inventor guy), Family (a mutated vampire type race that could see in the dark), android/cyborg and even a robot in an unreleased version of the mod, Brotherhood outcast (F3 only), Brothehood of Steel, runaway Enclave officer, escaped slave, slaver, raider.

I got all the ideas still and all the special interactions laid out and would be fun to make/play something like that for Fallout 2.

Imagine there is no temple of trials and there is no arroyo but you begin in various parts of the map depending on what you are. All relevant quest scripts get edited and tweaked so the game is not broken. Essentially you need to find your way to Arroyo and pick the main quest as their chosen one but you could play as a bad guy and at the end you ally yourself with Horrigan for example instead of killing him.

What do you guys think? Is there a mod like that available?

it deff needs to use Appearence Mod to be able to switch your look as other critters including a lumbering slow ghoul no running, or a mutant no armor wearing, a robot no armor or chems, etc.

Easiest and simplest way it was commonly done in Fo3 is you start the game inside a special room with a terminal that has all the possible choices you want and picking one teleports you there. Or you could have it so there is a dialogue with Klint and you tell him you wish you were someone else and you become someone else . Etc.

And this would be something additional to the default game and default game can be played just as fine. All these other choices are optional.

 

[CPL]

Sounds pretty cool. I don't think there ever was a mod that was finished that sounds like that, although there might have been ideas thrown around here and there. I imagine the most work involved would be scripting and writing out the story lines. You could probably use the same maps and all of that. Of course, the different characters might involve some work to implement correctly, too.

 

[Oppen]

Effectively, probably most of the work would be in scripting and writing. For example, most dialogs in Fallout 2 assume a tribal background. A more specific example would be allegiance. If you are a supermutant, the racists in Broken Hills or Vault City would probably be unfriendly or outright hostile, disregarding your choices of words. The same way, you wouldn't be able to lie your way into Navarro if you are clearly a mutant. You would be unable to wear a power armor if you are a supermutant. If you come from the BoS, you shouldn't be required to get the Vertibird plans to access their bunkers. The list of possibilities will always go on.
Not only that, but something should be done to balance the character and make it more consistent with its race and background. Maybe a trait that modifies stats and maybe provide some other customizations, or a factor for the meaning of a specific SPECIAL point, for example, a point in strength meaning more base hth damage and carry weight for a super mutant than for a human or ghoul, a point to intelligence meaning more base skillpoints for a Vault City citizen (since it had access to a better education) than for a tribal, etc. Rad resistance should also be modified depending on bakground (specifically, race).

On a more feet-in-the-ground side-comment, I'd start with the groundwork (enabling making different histories in a relatively simple way) and ONE parallel history.

 

[Magnus]

I've played very little Fallout 3, but I believe it's a lot more sandboxy than Fallout 1 and 2, and as such it's better suited for a variety of character backgrounds. It would take quite a lot of work to make such a mod for F2, because as others have pointed out much of the dialogue assumes you're a tribal.

Playing as something other than the default character can also take literally hundreds of hours to implement, because it means hand-drawing the frames for each of the weapons animations, with each armor. Super Mutants are also two-hex critters, which I'm not sure the engine can handle for the player.

This would be fun though. Playing as a trapper in Klamath for example, who goes to trade with Arroyo one day and learns of their problem.

 

[trollworkout]

Hey guys. Thank you for replying.

That is why I said is a pipe dream. However, not all is lost. I have experience doing a similar mod for FO3 and I know kinda how to go about it to make it work and lessen the work for everyone.

First version would be something like this.
- The video with tribe elder talking to you before game begins is disabled by default "Come in chosen one there are things you must know....."
- Talking to Klint you now get another dialogue topic where you can choose an alternative history. The topic is something like " I wish I was someone else." then a whole list of histories which Klint will tell you what he thinks about each one as you click it . From there you can say go back or I made my decision and you get teleported to a different place on the map and Temple of Trials is automatically completed for you.
- An history is essentially a third trait that is added to your character after you make your history choice or if you don't choose an alternative history then a "Chosen One" trait gets added automatically once you finish Temple of Trials.
- First set of histories will be pretty generic and basic like: gecko trapper, vault city dweller, thief, slaver, slave, mechanic, sheriff, politician, scavenger, wanderer, wastelander , Sheriff, bounty hunter. None of these will be game breaking and none of them will require too much scripting.

Here is a sample of alternative history text/trait
Slaver
"You have been a slave-trader for Metzger for years. You are strong and ruthless but have very little empathy for other humans."

You start +10% on combat related skills but but -10% on human to human interaction skills (medicine, barter, speech ..)
You begin in Metzger's house in Den and already as a slaver hired by Metzger

Gecko Trapper
"You are a gecko trapper from Klamath. Under the direction of Smiley you have learned to cook, skin and hunt geckos."

you start with Gecko Skinning perk off the bat level 1.
You also begin as Accepted in Klamath.

Politician
"You have been always told you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. You are good at talking but not so good at acting."

you get +60% speech and -10% on all combat related skills ( small guns, big guns, energy weapons, throwing..etc).
you begin the game perhaps in New Reno or in vault City outside the walls

Thief
"You are good at taking things that don't belong but just as good as losing them back."

You start the game with +15% lockpick, 15% sneaking but -15% barter and -15% gambling and you probably start in New Reno.

Bounty Hunter
"You are a mercenary for hire ruthless and efficient. As long as pay is involved you can kill anyone for anyone. "

For this one I am thinking a mix of thief and slaver kinda like -15% speech -15% gambling, +15% small guns, +15% sneaking.


And so forth....

Essentially first version is pretend you're someone else start the game in a different place on the map that's pretty much it. Nothing else gets changed in the game. What do you think?

 

[Oppen]

Hey guys. Thank you for replying.

I get the attention and then got thanked? Great!

Now, some criticisms, corrections, suggestions, whatever comes to mind:

- Talking to Klint you now get another dialogue topic where you can choose an alternative history. The topic is something like " I wish I was someone else." then a whole list of histories which Klint will tell you what he thinks about each one as you click it . From there you can say go back or I made my decision and you get teleported to a different place on the map and Temple of Trials is automatically completed for you.

That would kind of suspend a bit of disbelief. Sounds about right for a first version, but some other alternative should come that doesn't make it feel like either it is more magical than Fallout is supposed to be or either the whole game is not your character's real life, but a fantasy.

- First set of histories will be pretty generic and basic like: gecko trapper, vault city dweller, thief, slaver, slave, mechanic, sheriff, politician, scavenger, wanderer, wastelander , Sheriff, bounty hunter. None of these will be game breaking and none of them will require too much scripting.

Just a little cherry picking here: vault city's inhabitants would be vault city citizens. They ceased to be vault dwellers some time around the events of Fallout 1, since Richard Grey (ex-Moreau) was exiled from the vault in the early days after its opening. The city must have been started a little while later, but clearly a lot before the 80 years after Fallout 1 when Fallout 2 happens.

Thief
"You are good at taking things that don't belong but just as good as losing them back."

This one doesn't sound like it requires any different background.

 

[trollworkout]

I just re-installed windows with 7 and I am installing fallout 2 again now. I'm gonna try to dig trough the forum see what other people did to make other mods see if is something do-able with whatever is out there. This mod would be all scripting.

Yeah for a first version I'd ideally like to be able to simply pick something and have you teleported to a different place.

I was even thinking of modifying Appearence Mod and replace race with history so for example a ghoul history changes your style to a ghoul look but most human histories keep it on human look. A female ghoul would look identical to a male ghoul etc.

Well a lot of the histories can be changed any time is not what I am worried about. I jsut wanna get the basic system figured out then I can keep adding a bunch or changing them around any time based on suggestions, ideas, or whatever.

I don't know how people quote other posts. I can guarantee I read all your replies just so you all know.

 

[Oppen]

I'd recommend you look for the sources of Fallout 2 Restoration Project. It's a sticky thread, the source code is available and it's probably one of the highest quality mods. There are lots of modded scripts and functionality for you to inspire from.

EDIT: also, to quote other users' posts and edit your own there are little buttons with green text under the post itself, to the right.

 

[trollworkout]

I'd recommend you look for the sources of Fallout 2 Restoration Project. It's a sticky thread, the source code is available and it's probably one of the highest quality mods. There are lots of modded scripts and functionality for you to inspire from.

EDIT: also, to quote other users' posts and edit your own there are little buttons with green text under the post itself, to the right.

Ok! Seems there are a few ways to do this but the simplest is using Sfall scripting and make fake traits and a global variable let's say ALTHIST that holds the chosen history by default 0 (default game)



If I use Appearence Mod I can change Race to History and allow user to change history at char creation plus it keeps all scripting in Sfall
Then I can change game dialogues scripts to do different things based on ALTHIST global.



Essentially I wanna see if I can set globals based on Race choices , if I can modify Appearence Mod and if I can get perm to do so. I'll do it for myself only to learn 4 now.


EDIT: Might not be possible to rename the titles Race and Style .

EDIT2: Can be changed but AppRace.frm but i don't know where is loaded from

 

[CPL]

You could start out smaller and not necessarily worry about doing the race thing off the bat at first. That way you can see how the rest of the mod will work out by using what you already have available. If it works out, then you can try adding that later, since that seems like it could cause some issues, or at least an extra amount of work to implement.

 

[trollworkout]

easiest way i found is using sfall traits scripting.
sfall traits have 2 advantages: they provides a permanent panel (trait) under perks for record keeping in character panel and have built in effects that change the character (+x attributes +x% skills etc etc).
the disadvantage is that they require external adding and and cannot be included as character setup. i can do this in a dialogue with klint, a randomly appearing dialogue, a terminal or billboard (still a dialogue).


a more elegant way is using a custom sfall with modified appearence mod or simply ask for the ability to change the labels in 3.8+
appearence mod provides 3 advantages over the previous method: is available at char generation so no need for dialogue scripting, provides race/style globals that are available in the game so dialogues can simply check for these globals easy, much more clean way to display your present/future look(s) based on the history selected like say if you choose a mutant or ghoul or a robot
disadvantage of app mod is the appearences cannot affect character stats so some hack scripting once game begins is required


option 1 is cool. option 2 is more streamlined elegant but a bit harder. ideally i can make option 2 work as i want by forking sfall and adding new options which perhaps can be merged in original branch. the options i require is custom setting to change labels, ability for race choices to affect character stats like traits do. i can add this functionality myself then compile my own sfall and distribute that (with permission of course). these changes can easily be implemented in main branch as it doesn't affect the functionality of sfall appearence mod just adds extra features that are only useful to me. doing this is a bit more work but essentially makes it easier later on and much much much more elegant and nice. you start the game , pick your history and matching look, start the game and once game started there is a script to instantly teleport you to where you're supposed to be based on history and complete temple of trials. EZ