Any thoughts?

Briosafreak

Briosafreak

Lived Through the Heat Death
Chad "Briareus" Nicholas shared a few ideas on how he thinks NPC levelling should be dealt in Fallout3:
<blockquote>Here's how I'd like to do it:

CNPCs get the same amount of XP you do. They all use the same XP level chart, and level up when they pass the same thresholds you pass.
So, when you earn 5 XP, every CNPC in your party gets 5 XP as well. When you pass NNNN in XP, you become level L. When they pass NNNN in XP, they become level L.
We could also make it that when a CNPC first joins your party, their level is equal to your level, plus or minus a certain amount. This ensures that if you passed up Sulik until you were level 20, you don't have a crappy CNPC standing around in the wastes. But, once they join your party, if they leave, they do not get to match your level in the same manner when they rejoin.

Thoughts?</blockquote>
So Odin posted a few thoughts:
<blockquote>Or you could make it so that they level up more quickly, to sort of catch up. But then again that would make it so that they don't level up like you, unless you're around the same level. Which would make their Yxlevel up "speed" flat out..to your "speed"</blockquote>
And Briareus replied:
<blockquote> This is handled by XP charts already (in any game, really). For example, take DND. The XP chart is:

1 = 0
2 = 1000
3 = 3000
4 = 6000
5 = 10000
6 = 15000

Now, if you are level 4 and your CNPC is level 2, once you've both earned 2000 XP, you'll still be level 4 and he'll have caught up to level 3. Of course, you'll hit level 5 2000 XP later, but you'll both end up the same level or one level apart eventually.</blockquote>
Then Sarjahurmaaja. pointed out this:
<blockquote>it might be just me, but I'd like the NPCs to level a bit slower than my character, say, 4/5 speed, because, well, it makes me feel less of a hero and more of a sidekick when I got these badasses that could kick my butt while asleep if they wanted to in my party.</blockquote>
And Briareus had this to say:
<blockquote> I think we can come up with other ways to ensure that the player is the badest bad ass of the wastes without slowing down CNPC level progression.</blockquote>
Link: Thread@BIS Feedback forum
 
So do you have to share experience with npc's? Like if you kill a baddie worth 500 xp and you have 5 party members, do you each get 100 xp? or 500 each?

Also, does the player have any input on what happens when NPC's level up?
 
lilfyffedawg said:
So do you have to share experience with npc's? Like if you kill a baddie worth 500 xp and you have 5 party members, do you each get 100 xp? or 500 each?

Also, does the player have any input on what happens when NPC's level up?
Click to expand...

Briareus said that XP won't be split, and that the player won't be able to choose how NPCs level up. Tho I think puuk actually said the second part.
 
Yeah lots of info and ideas, it`s like a brainstorm session, i`ll leave it to put it on the news tomorrow.
 
Sarjahurmaaja. pointed out this:

it might be just me, but id like the NPCs to level a bit slower than my character, say, 4/5 speed, because, well, it makes me feel less of a hero and more of a sidekick when I got these badasses that could kick my butt while asleep if they wanted to in my party.


and no one is allowed to have a bigger knob than the PC because that also makes him feel less manly.

lenny could have killed the vault dweller in his sleep if he wanted...

anyway i just thought that comment was kind stupid..:D
 
Sarjahurmaaja. pointed out this:
Click to expand...

To be fair, you should have posted a reply to that in that thread. Its not really sporting to take a shot at him over here where he can't further explain his idea or defend himself. :cry:

but I would agree with your comment that I don't mind my NPCs rivaling my abilities if it doesn't unbalance the game. Tho, in FO games (as the devs repeat over and over) the player is supposed to be the "man". The NPCs are just supposed to be back up dancers in terms of plot and skill.
 
Yeah, I want to be king shit of fuck mountain when I play a game.

I'M the fuckin' Chosen One, not Myron, Marcus, Cassidy, or Vic, goddammit!
 
Briareus said:
CNPCs get the same amount of XP you do. They all use the same XP level chart, and level up when they pass the same thresholds you pass.
So, when you earn 5 XP, every CNPC in your party gets 5 XP as well. When you pass NNNN in XP, you become level L. When they pass NNNN in XP, they become level L.
We could also make it that when a CNPC first joins your party, their level is equal to your level, plus or minus a certain amount. This ensures that if you passed up Sulik until you were level 20, you don't have a crappy CNPC standing around in the wastes. But, once they join your party, if they leave, they do not get to match your level in the same manner when they rejoin.
Click to expand...

This sounds good to me, but maybe the NPC level shouldn't always match yours when they join. It might be interesting to have a few that are obviously below your level but have some redeeming or needed quality that makes it worth your while to level them up - either a skill you don't have or need, or just that the NPC's personality is appealing enough that you want to have them in your party. I guess it mostly depends on how frustrating leveling up someone would be, if leveling up is needed, or how useful the NPC is despite their low level - if you have to fight 50,000 ants before the NPC starts to pull their weight or survive any more difficult encounters, than it's probably not worth the effort.

Sarjahurmaaja said:
it might be just me, but I'd like the NPCs to level a bit slower than my character, say, 4/5 speed, because, well, it makes me feel less of a hero and more of a sidekick when I got these badasses that could kick my butt while asleep if they wanted to in my party.
Click to expand...

I think it could actually be great if you end up with an NPC who is better than you in the area you think you shine in. Say you start a brawler character, and focus everything on making yourself the biggest bad-ass you can. You meet an NPC who's a brawler as well, you team up, and it gradually dawns on you that he/she is much, much better than you are, and is kicking a lot more ass. What do you do? Do you be content with being #2, because after all, you're the leader and he's just following your orders? Do you get jealous and dump him in a bar somewhere to "wait for you until you come back", or arrange to have him taken down a notch, or "accidentally" shoot him in the head? Do you be the good guy and let it be because after all, you're out to get the bad guys and not stroke your ego? Same for diplomats, thieves, science boys, etc. I think a situation like that is only going to increase your enjoyment of the game because it's going to get you more involved in it and give you more opportunities to actually role-play, even if it's more in your head than on the screen.
 
Personally, I think followers and NPCs in general should use a "lite" version of SPECIAL, to reflect that the PC is the biggest and baddest thing around, or at least has the potential to become. I don't think any companion should be able to best the PC in his area of expertise.
 
Cutting the NPC's back to make the player feel important is no good. The player is, well, the player, the only one that can tweak out his stats intelligently. If that means taking a cue from the NPC's, even better.

My favorite way to play through fallout 2 is build up my party to be an army-- I let them act "on their own" or "charge" mostly, and I hang back to play free-safety. I don't want my army cut back to maintain an artificial gap between player and NPC.

I agree with Montez that it would be interesting if the NPC could exceed the player in his area of specialty. I'd like to see, say, a specialized sniper NPC which was better than the player-- unless, say, the player was a specialzed sniper. I would say it is absolutely not necessary that the player can be better than the NPC's in every area every time. I would, in fact, keep the NPC's not too far out of sync with the player himself.
 
Well if the NPC is a sniper per trade, it would make common sence that he would exceed you in his skill if you haven't chosen that as your "main" skill..

But this all makes it sound more and more like a party based RPG, ie where you control the NPCs..which I really don't like, I'd like the NPCs to be more independent..

And seeing that I usually play a loner (except with Dogmeat on my side and the occiasional quest that requires me to have a tag-along), I really don't care what you guys choose..

Playing a loner equals an RPG for me, I don't want to concentrate on a bunch of NPCs. I would go out and play a squad based game for that..
 
I don't mean to imply it would be the best thing, or that NPC's should be made that are specifically better than the PC at all times - I was just over-enthusiastically saying that I don't think NPC's should be handicapped just so the player feels superior. Even if you make a melee PC in FO2, Sulik might be better than you are when you first get him. You can surpass him pretty easily after a few levels, but he could probably whip your ass while you're low-level. I don't think that's a bad thing - getting clubbed to death by a few hooligans outside of the Den is going to make you feel a lot less bad ass than having an NPC who's a few skill points and a perk better than you will. And, for example, if you're going through the game as "evil" it would just make it all the sweeter when you finally surpass the NPC and stomp them into the ground. :twisted:

I don't want FO3 to be anything like a squad-based game either - it's just that when I took NPC's in FO1+2, or almost any game for that matter, they usually ended up being nothing more than cannon fodder in combat. No need to make them even more useless than they usually are - what's the point of making NPC's intentionally worse than you are at all times to make you feel superior when it's possible that a few prostitutes can gang up on you and stab you to death? It just seems silly. I felt like less of a bad ass when I had to reload the game than I did when Sulik or Ian or Cassidy killed a few more things than I did.
 
The Player should NEVER be able to influence the choices made for an NPC at a level-up. The very reson one uses an NPC is so that the Player has somebody around to compensate for something he lacks (Vic's Repair, Myron's Science).

It also destroys the roleplay value. A scrawny little guy like Myron shouldn't be able to be increadibly adept at Big Guns and lay waste like a God of War. Same thing with having Marctus be good at Small Arms. Super Mutants are ham-fisted. Their hands are simply too big to operate a rifle or sidearm.
 
yeh, but i seem to have an account under the alias of Do0Fu5 everywhere cept there...

whenever i try to do it something goes wrong, lol, think the name is taken now, buy some stupidly obscure e-mail i tried but still fucked up
 
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