Australian Industrial Relations Reform

quietfanatic

Ancient One
The Australian public might follow sport closely and take it seriously but when it comes to politics they are largely selfish, apathetic and disinterested.

The people of Australia voted overwhelming for the Liberal party (the leading party of the conservative coalition) influenced by dishonest fear mongering about interest rates and immigration. The Liberals had the nerve to claim that our current economic prosperity is their doing, as opposed to the policies implemented by past Labor governments and uncontrollable factors such as high commodity prices. The lefties did little to counter the campaign as well, which was just great. I understand people voting conservative in the House of Representatives (lower house), as support for big business and abandoning health and education does have some financial benefits, but the morons let them win a landslide in the Senate (upper house) as well. That is just stupid, because the party positions aren’t that different on most common issues, so only extreme and unjust laws would likely be blocked by opposition senators.

Now that they have total control at the Federal Level, they are rushing through extreme laws that they have wanted to implement for years. They are selling off the other half of our national telephone company, which people knew about, but the price isn’t high enough yet. Generous tax cuts for the wealthy and unsurprising as well.

The scary thing is their new Industrial Relations reform package called Workchoices (hah) that they have introduced without a word during the election campaign. They have spent more than $50, 000, 000 of public money on a propaganda campaign recently, claiming that the proposed system would be ‘simpler’, ‘fairer, ‘better’ and necessary for keeping the economy strong. The ‘simple’ laws in the rushed 700 page document change the emphasis heavily in favour of the employer. Independent arbitration commissions are to be abolished and replaced with one government controlled Fair Pay Commission that will set the minimum wage and leave responsibility for smaller disputes to employers. Federal power will largely replace state responsibility. Businesses (or subsidiaries I would guess) with less than 100 employees are exempt from unfair dismissal laws. Probably the most extreme feature is the stipulation to force employees on to individual contracts or AWAs (Australian Worker Agreement) without the right of collective bargaining. I honestly believe that effectively kills unions. Most professional people should not have too much trouble negotiating personally with their employer, but blue-collar workers are left very vulnerable. Furthermore, awards such as overtime pay and holidays will either be cut back or left to the discretion of employers. Rights taken for granted in the past are now likely to be eroded away over coming years. It is harsher than America in some ways, where I believe your unions still have some protection and the states more independence.

The Prime Minister has said that his ‘guarantee is his record’ when asked if the reforms are actually positive, which is true only in the fact that he has been a dishonest bastard many times before, having no relevance to the very complicated set of regulations. They are either sound laws or not. Nearly all the industrial relations academics, all the unions and some conservative politicians have attacked the bill. The general public is mostly confused about or opposed to the changes. Obviously, employer groups are quite happy about them, but think they are too rigid in some respects. The Liberals have used their numbers in the House of Representatives to gag debate after only one day, preventing many irate Labor politicians from speaking. Having approved the measures, it is now being discussed both by senators and the High Court, but there is little anyone can really do to stop the bill from being passed and implemented just before Christmas. Labor could overturn them after the next election, but as the new leader is an incompetent failure I don’t fancy their chances of getting in. It is a disgrace.

To be fair, it is not all bad and unjust, it is too difficult to get rid of people for small businesses and some of the previous legislation is too complicated under the current system. But they have gone too far and are abusing their majority. The new legislation is actually more complicated and proscriptive than the old system, with less flexibility, less fairness and more red tape for the average worker. Destroying people’s family life and leaving them in fear of losing basic entitlements is going to do little to increase productivity. This is primarily about political ideology obscuring practical problems and reasonable debate.

/semi-rant
 
This sort of IR 'reform' was introduced to New Zealand 10-15 years ago (I'm a Kiwi living here in AU). All it has achieved is to lower the wages and conditions of the workers.

I'm not certain it spells the deathknell for unions in this country - that happened quite some time ago, their own doing, but now that they are at their weakest the governement has made it's move.
 
yea these IR reforms do suck, for all we know these changes could lead to australia's (further) demise in the world economy as we become less attractive for overseas corporations

but i will say this however....don't get me wrong im no liberal supporter but these laws are implemented under microeconomic reforms to which a country HOPES to create more jobs and further economic growth

furthermore, these reforms create a hugely more competitive market to which the australian economy will soon stand upon as overseas companies see or nation as an awesome basis on which to trade------> thus creating jobs and further economic development and growth

these microeconomic reforms take years to realise their impact because it is a slow ongoing process of beaurocracy and what-not. if we did not implement these laws NOW, australian competitiveness on world scales would plummet, leading to an economic demise, leading to less jobs, leading to less income, etc, etc..........

as for me.. i do not know or imagine what these reforms will do to our nation, but for now hope good ol' Howard doesnt do anything else to place australia in the firing line of job security and workplace agreements....

PM me for more info

cheers,
the duckman
 
duckman said:
demise in the world economy as we become less attractive for overseas corporations

Wouldn't less worker entitlements and choice for employers make investing here more attractive at the cost of our standard of living? (I think you say this later) I would guess that corporations might not like the high level of regulation though.

We already have low unemployment and fairly good growth now, so it seems like the reforms go too far inspired by some fairly abstract economic theory. Although I know next to nothing about economics, those who do either think that they are unnecessarily extreme or not extreme enough, considering the fact that the Federal Government can practically do as it wishes. I heard that the NZ reforms had less regulation than ours for example.

These laws have not been thought through well enough and should have been debated properly, taking a more moderate route which could bring similar benefits. I think it is more likely that the negative effect on working conditions will take a while, as opposed to some short-term benefits, followed by more longer term ones. The bureaucratic time wasting will always maar the system. With one of the most complicated tax systems in the world (so that no one actually knows the tax law properly), Business Activity Statements and the like, why should this system be any different? Even some Liberal supporters think this will be a problem.

Don't use 'good' and 'Howard' in the same sentence. Someone might take you seriously. :twisted:
 
Firstly an apology on grammar and the like...

Well I do agree that these Industrial Relations reforms will bring much doubt into the mind of employees of Australian businesses, but as the country's development of thes reforms continue, so will work/job security matters that come with it.

Microeconomic Reform is the very underlying economic 'controls' that can determine how the country will be functioning in the near future. These Microeconomic Reforms take a long time to implement and see the outcomes due to the fact that these movements are often ground breaking (just like the current IR reforms). Thus, we will not see even the slightest of differences in the Australian economy anywhere in the next few years.

But if you look further at the way Australian economics run at the moment, the Coalition seems to be moving microeconomic policies in a way that will speed up the economy (leads to higher economic growth, lower interest rates) and macroeconomic policies in a direction that will lower our growth rate (hence fairly recent increases of interest rates to 5.5%)

Call me skeptical, but what the government is doing now to both macro and micro economic policies somewhat jeopardizes our country's position in the global economy.

However, these IR reforms overall "grand" effects shall not been seen due to the implementation lag effect of such policies.

But the current "hysteria" in Australia is viable, but people need to know how these reforms will effect them and their families in the near future. But I am not saying this to defend the Coalition because i do think that these will have a severe negative effect when first results appear due to reforms.
 
Ought my lords, now that we are all dead, we can rise up again, and make the world as it should have been all along. :twisted:
 
I have no idea what you just said Jarno.

The way I see it, Howard is trying to confuse our tiny little minds by shoving one horrific piece of legislation after another right down our throats. First there were the IR reforms which raised 100,000 people in Melbourne alone (one in thirty people). Second, there were the stupid anti-terror laws with such stupidity as: If a child is considered a suspect of terrorism, and is held because of it only one parent is allowed to be told.

This country is going to the dogs. I've actually considered running after him during his morning run and stabbing him repeatedly.
 
Specialist said:
I've actually considered running after him during his morning run and stabbing him repeatedly.
No no no, go with the more friendly approach, go to congratulate him, hug him and tab him in the back, as he asks what are you doing, answer, the same as you, just trying to find the right place, to push the blade through.
 
These new reforms are not understood completely by anyone in this country except for the few elect who have no idea how this country actually runs. So its a lose-lose situation where people implementing the laws don't know the people or the economy of the country, and thus, the people not understanding the laws these elect make. I mean this is an extreme example but it gives people a fair idea that these people don't know much about this country's employment or social circumstances.

And don't think that I know exactly what these reforms mean because no one actually knows the complete effects of these reforms, let alone what will happen anywhere in the future. People I know have there own knowledge of the reforms but not a complete overview of what the government wants us/doesn't want us to know.

Anyhow, a little off topic but did anyone see John Howard playing cricket with those kids in Pakistan? I laughed my tits off when he tried to bowl the ball at the little kid up the other end, only for the ball to land pretty much at his feet and him nearly ending up on his face.
I know people aren't going to agree when I call Howard a champ but hear me out. Based on the fact that he wears old polo shirts to conferences and at least makes an attempt to play sport when he can clearly not, makes him yet another Aussie bogan.

In my opinion, people need to be further educated on these reforms before they overreact and expect the worst from these reforms.

Cheers,
The Duckman
 
Now that Barnaby Joyce has folded over the legislation will sail through without a single significant change...
Am I the only person who thinks that the idea that an MP should be loyal first to his party, and then the people who elected him is a moronic notion?
 
No, you are not the only one. But some things in Australian politics don't make sense.....For example, we the people vote for a political power (Coalition or ALP) who in turn votes within themselves to elect a Prime Minister.
The MP's should be loyal to the people first, but if they ARE, quite often they are "excommunicated" from their elect party and don't have jobs. Well anything to the same extent...

Cheers,
The Duckman
 
Not to mention the fact that the position of "Prime Minister" isn't mentioned in anyway in the constitution, and that parties can swap votes amongst themselves so that the party you vote for isn't really being voted for at all.
 
Sorry, I don't mean to randomly dig up an old thread, but a few things have come up in this topic of IR reforms, and what effects some have had on the Australian market.

A friend of mine is working for a large printing company (100+ employees) and this company is 'diversifying' lower the amount of employees to bring them under a new law which makes it easier for the separate different company sections to dismiss workers, and change work conditions.

I really don't know what this will do for the now separated company, but it runs under different names, but as the same entity.

As for me, I'm an apprentice, so I'm locked in (unfortunately or fortunately??) for 4 years so as for now, my job is safe.

But it is amusing that a few Irish MP's didn't turn up to John Howard's address to their Lower House due to an array of things, including these IR reforms.
 
The reorganisation in this company appears to be an example of the predicted abuse of one of the loop holes in these laws; Pretend that a large business is many small ones so that you can get the special dispensations aimed at helping genuine small-scale operators.

But it is amusing that a few Irish MP's didn't turn up to John Howard's address to their Lower House due to an array of things, including these IR reforms.

Why is it amusing? Because they care more about the war in Iraq, detention centres and human rights than the average Australian voter does?
 
The reorganisation in this company appears to be an example of the predicted abuse of one of the loop holes in these laws; Pretend that a large business is many small ones so that you can get the special dispensations aimed at helping genuine small-scale operators.

That is exactly what my friend and I were both thinking as the only reason for them to do something like that. As blatant as it may be, they are doing it for the loop hole.

Why is it amusing? Because they care more about the war in Iraq, detention centres and human rights than the average Australian voter does?

I think it's amusing as these MPs left a Prime Minister due to the Iraqi War. I mean, it's not like it's going to change what the Americans are doing over there, even if it is to prove a point. And as far as I know, only 3-4 MPs were not present.

As for the immigration policies and all, I feel that considering these people come here as illegal 'aliens', I think they are getting too well treated in these facilities. I wouldn't want them to be poorly treated, but considering they come here and expect to live here in some kind of peace, is unreasonable. Sure, the country where they may be coming from is war torn, famine stricken and diseased, but seriously, do they expect to live in our society without coming under the law?

The facilities they are living in are far from breathtaking, but they are illegal immigrants, and deserve to be institutionalised.
 
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