Belgian justice accuses Scientology of being criminal

SuAside

SuAside

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The belgian justice department announced today that they accused the belgian (Belgische Kerk van Scientology) and european (European Bureau for the Church of Scientology International) scientology wing and 14 of its members of being a criminal organisation. They are accused of a very broad range of things, going from being a criminal organization, extortion, fraud, infringements on the trade practices, violation of the privacy laws and illegitimate practice of the medicine. No doubt brainwashing and manipulation will also be discussed.

The case started off in 1999 when ex-members told the justice department that they had been scammed out of their money, but it took this long to make a full and comprehensive investigation.

Needless to say this will be one hell of a legal battle as Scientology is insanely rich and that it has been recognised by a few countries as a legitimate religion (USA, Australia,...). I wonder what Tom Cruise & John Travolta have to say about this. ;)

It is to be noted that in Belgium, Scientology has been on the watchlist of dangerous religious cults for quite a while now (as have Opus Dei, Followers of Jehova, etc).

sources: 1, 2.
 
It is important to note they are being accused for violating state laws, not because they are a religion organization.

Imho the validity of what they "preach" is the same as any other religion, and good people and bad people exist in all ethnicities, countries, religions, economic casts, etc.

So if some catholic priests abuse some children I don’t turn and say "lets hang the pope for being a child molester", the same way I don’t ask what "tom cruise" thinks about the crimes some scientologists done...
 
It's about time some country decided to keep that bullshit out. Most prefer to turn a blind eye because of "religious tolerance" or indifference. I'm glad that at least here they've kept a rather low profile; on the other hand we have IURD...

Zeal said:
It is important to note they are being accused for violating state laws, not because they are a religion organization.

Imho the validity of what they "preach" is the same as any other religion, and good people and bad people exist in all ethnicities, countries, religions, economic casts, etc.

So if some catholic priests abuse some children I don’t turn and say "lets hang the pope for being a child molester", the same way I don’t ask what "tom cruise" thinks about the crimes some scientologists done...
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Scientology was never meant to be a real religion, just a way of making money. Ron Hubbard himself said that. Also, read a bit on what they do, and what their beliefs are... it's even more ridiculous than mainstream religions IMHO.
 
I'm just curious, are there any scientologists here? If so, please come out of the closet. SCIENTOLOGY!

Hehehe, I walked past their HQ in Hollywood. I bet Tom Cruise was sitting in there masturbating.
 
Zeal said:
It is important to note they are being accused for violating state laws, not because they are a religion organization.
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not entirely true since not only the individuals involved are accused of this but the entire network (belgian & european). the whole structure is set up to enable them to make more money (including through extortion after finding out stuff through weirdo polygraph style tests). they also practise medicin within the organisation without proper licenses and whatnot.

saying the religion is above it is not true. though it should be noted that lower echelon people arent aware of this (but that's due to their own gullibility since it has been documented time & time again).

i wonder if L. Ron is going to try to get Bush to nuke Belgium now. :P
 
SuAside said:
i wonder if L. Ron is going to try to get Bush to nuke Belgium now. :P
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He can't do anything because he's dead. Fortunately. Although his church denies this officially, claiming instead that he "discarded his body to do higher level spiritual research". Comedy gold.
 
I know they spread ignorance in the world (or try to), just like any other religion (imho there is no degrees of false info, there is the right info and the false one...).

Ever heard of the crusades? Or the missionaries? You think their motives were pure? Actually, during the history of the Catholic Church (im taking this one as example because it is the most known for us western citizens of the world) the clerical cast was the group of people that least believed in what themselves were spreading.

Plus can you define to me what religion means? it doesn’t matter what started to be, it matters what it is, its all a question of faith, no explanations required :D aahhh the power of the dogma

yeah i would prefer none existed, but if it is permitted to exist one, then it should be permitted to exist as many as the people want/need, its an ethic question imho.

Plus i believe what i said still applies, if a catholic priest molest a child (if it were only one :p) i don’t have the right to say the organization is foul or appoint ringleaders or celebrities that have the same religion as child molesters....

Tbh it causes me more confusion how a country like America, land of the free, one of the 1st democratic countries in the world, has on its money (the supreme symbol of the state) “In God we Trust”! Wasn’t the religious powers separated (in theory) from the state? Now when a state forces a religion into yourself, that worries me, because if I want I give money/believe in those scientologists, no1 forces me, but that’s not the case with other churches, since in some public schools, before classes, you are obliged to pray or live with religious symbols (in public places, paid with your tax money, and according with the constitution completely free of any religious innuendo)…

SuAside said:
not entirely true since not only the individuals involved are accused of this but the entire network (belgian & european). the whole structure is set up to enable them to make more money (…through extortion … weirdo …. style …).
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You are defining a church to me…

Do you see them (religious organizations) as any other way? Again it’s a matter of accusing just one and not them all.

Unless you are telling me the orders to commit LEGAL fraud (like tampering with the market) come from up above and are followed by the majority of the members as a organization policy.

As long as they don’t force anyone, I don’t see what they are doing wrong… (unless they commit fraud, like showing a fake medical diploma to trick the people in making believe they are doctors or something) - actually i do, i mean, i dont see whats NEW :p

The rest is a question of… faith?!

I believe you should visit a little place called Fatima right here on Portugal, shit, it sure beats the hell out of Indian Casinos ^^
 
Zeal said:
Plus i believe what i said still applies, if a catholic priest molest a child (if it were only one :p) i don’t have the right to say the organization is foul or appoint ringleaders or celebrities that have the same religion as child molesters....
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They're not being singled out because of actions of some individuals or because they're religious, they are being singled out because of structural illegal actions, including extortion, fraud and illegal practice of medicine. This has absolutely nothing to do with the catholic church or child-abuse.
 
Sander said:
Zeal said:
Plus i believe what i said still applies, if a catholic priest molest a child (if it were only one :p) i don’t have the right to say the organization is foul or appoint ringleaders or celebrities that have the same religion as child molesters....
Click to expand...
They're not being singled out because of actions of some individuals or because they're religious, they are being singled out because of structural illegal actions, including extortion, fraud and illegal practice of medicine. This has absolutely nothing to do with the catholic church or child-abuse.
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The Tom Cruise remark has, that was what i was talking about... It was implied that because members of that religious organization were criminals that would make the "word" they spread be less valid making Tom Cruise look bad by beliving on it: "what you say about some members of your religious cult being criminals tom? that really makes you look bad right?"

"what dp you say about some of your ministers being child molestors pope? that really makes you look bad right?"

hope im not being confused as someone defending the scientologists, just trying to have an universal ethics :p

Not that im in love with him or something, just dont find it appropriate!
 
Did you even read Hubbard's quotes?
Hubbard said:
I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is.
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Hubbard said:
Scientology... is not a religion.
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Even him didn't consider it to be a religion, and rightly so, since the main objective was always to make money (and, judging from his other publications, through dubious means) and because they don't even care to thoroughly maintain their façade of "goodness".

As for the rest... yes, I do think religion in general is best avoided, but Scientology is particularly bad, because from the start, it was meant to ruin both its lower supporters and its opponents lives.
 
Wr4i7h said:
SuAside said:
i wonder if L. Ron is going to try to get Bush to nuke Belgium now. :P
Click to expand...
He can't do anything because he's dead. Fortunately. Although his church denies this officially, claiming instead that he "discarded his body to do higher level spiritual research". Comedy gold.
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yeah, but i thought scientology believed in reincarnation (i could be mistaken though), hence 'elron' might still nuke Belgium! :mrgreen:

Zeal said:
Plus i believe what i said still applies, if a catholic priest molest a child (if it were only one :p) i don’t have the right to say the organization is foul or appoint ringleaders or celebrities that have the same religion as child molesters....
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the catholic church doesnt set up their working just to enable catholic priests to molest children.

scientology (or its workings) on the other hand seems to be designed to enable manipulation, control and even extortion.
Zeal said:
Tbh it causes me more confusion how a country like America, land of the free, one of the 1st democratic countries in the world, has on its money (the supreme symbol of the state) “In God we Trust”! Wasn’t the religious powers separated (in theory) from the state? Now when a state forces a religion into yourself, that worries me, because if I want I give money/believe in those scientologists, no1 forces me, but that’s not the case with other churches, since in some public schools, before classes, you are obliged to pray or live with religious symbols (in public places, paid with your tax money, and according with the constitution completely free of any religious innuendo)…
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the whole uprise of religiousness in the american government has only been so for about 50 years. the founding fathers are probably rolling over in their graves right about now.

"one nation under god"? amended late in the history of the USA.
"in god we trust"? added 50 years ago

no, the founding fathers actually signed a treaty saying that the country had freedom of religion, but certainly was not a christian nation (nor a muslim one i might add). funny how now presidents say that they dont even recognise atheists as being able to being good citizens. many founding fathers were deists, agnostics and atheists...

Zeal said:
You are defining a church to me…

Do you see them (religious organizations) as any other way? Again it’s a matter of accusing just one and not them all.

Unless you are telling me the orders to commit LEGAL fraud (like tampering with the market) come from up above and are followed by the majority of the members as a organization policy.

As long as they don’t force anyone, I don’t see what they are doing wrong… (unless they commit fraud, like showing a fake medical diploma to trick the people in making believe they are doctors or something) - actually i do, i mean, i dont see whats NEW :p

The rest is a question of… faith?!
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yes many religions are moneygrubbing bastards too, but very few go to lengths that scientologists go... so no, i dont compare the catholic church, the islam or hindoeism with scientology. that is just a different goal. those faiths aim to regulate (while ofc taking advantage of people a bit), but scientology aims to dominate people. hence it is more of a cult than a religion to me.

as for the doctor thing, they were practising unlicensed medicin. so...

if we protect people from lung cancer by putting ugly pictures of smoker lungs on the cigarette packs, if we tell people not to drink & drive while inforcing that law, i think it is safe to say we should protect gullible people from religions (cults?) like scientology.
 
Wr4i7h said:
Did you even read Hubbard's quotes?
Hubbard said:
I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is.
Click to expand...
Hubbard said:
Scientology... is not a religion.
Click to expand...
Even him didn't consider it to be a religion, and rightly so, since the main objective was always to make money (and, judging from his other pulications, through dubious means) and because they don't even care to thoroughly maintain their façade of "goodness".
Click to expand...

raw defenition http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

tbh i know almost zero about them, i think they believe that we were created by aliens or something and have all the sort of rituals of fertility and such...

it doesnt matter what that guy says, what matters is how people see it...

i myself, have a Dragon in my garage, you call it insanity i call it faith :p

SuAside said:
scientology (or its workings) on the other hand seems to be designed to enable manipulation, control and even extortion.
Click to expand...

in my book thats the definition of religion...

PS: im getting out of time, have to go to work, anyway i just didnt like the tom cruise remark plus i dont see nothing new with them, just the fact they dont try to cover it up or the fact that other religions are losing its power... Anyway hope i didnt offend anyone and if it was up to me they should be completely banned, just on the principle of what they say (ok dont know much but what i hear repulses me)... laters
 
Zeal said:
i myself, have a Dragon in my garage, you call it insanity i call it faith :p
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that isnt faith. since it can actually be checked & researched.

now, if you say you have a dragon in your garage that only you can see, now that is faith.
 
SuAside said:
Zeal said:
i myself, have a Dragon in my garage, you call it insanity i call it faith :p
Click to expand...
that isnt faith. since it can actually be checked & researched.

now, if you say you have a dragon in your garage that only you can see, now that is faith.
Click to expand...

No no he is really there, but i must warm u though he is invisible, incorporeal, doesnt emanate heat, is floating, etc. you cant prove me HE doesnt exist :P

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm
 
Zeal said:
it doesnt matter what that guy says, what matters is how people see it...
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No, what matters is what they do. And what they do is compel their initiates/lower supporters to give ever growing "donations" to the church, until they are completely dependent upon it. This is what Hubbard meant it to be from the very beginning. It's no religion, it's a scheme to make money off of gullible people.
 
Heh, how about a free zeta scan? (This is on topic, kinda, since the hubologists are a parody of scientology.)
 
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