Can mods and DLC save it?

[Atomic Postman]

As it stands right now, Fallout 4 is a solidly mediocre open world action game that fails as an RPG or a Fallout game. Similarly, Skyrim was a solidly mediocre open world action game that fell flat as an RPG or an Elder Scrolls game.

That was, until the DLC added some fun content and Mods basically fixed the game.

Granted, Skyrim never did become a good RPG. However, with the right mods, it became an immersive, fun open world game that was much, much better than the vanilla content.

Will the same happen to Fallout 4? Can it be done? Well, there's the question. I feel like Bethesda have already shot themselves in the foot by delaying the GECK for so long and has snuffed whatever early modding community might have exploded outwardly upon release. The hype for Fallout 4 is pretty much dead and most people have forgotten about it already. Has Fallout 4's potential modding community already ran away?

 

[0wing]

Mods fixed some of the lesser problems (like guns not showing behind the back when not used for example) but not so much progress overall, especially in roleplay system tweaking.

 

[Mr Fish]

If mods can save Fallout 4 I still won't be using 'em. Mods should be something you sprinkle on top of something that is already great it should not be something you have to use to patch up everything that is wrong.

But I doubt it. Fallout 4 is such a mess that I just don't see how mods can fix it. You add in new creatures and enemy factions then great, the game got more variety with its combat but that still doesn't fix the combat balance. So you get mods to fix the combat balance but that doesn't fix the perks. So you get mods to fix the perks but that doesn't fix the crafting elements. So you get mods to fix the crafting elements.

But.

The mods you're using will have different authors behind it who are all balancing shit out the way 'they' think will be balanced. So now you have a bunch of mods that don't synergize well with one another and you have to basically go over everything yourself to update the mods and create the balance you want to.

And the dialogue? The quests? The broken lore? That can't be fixed.

And settlements? They need a drastic overhaul and integrate into the main game but there comes the problem with synergizing with other mods again.

I just don't see how Fallout 4 can be fixed. You need a ton of mods and they all need to work together perfectly or it'll just create a whole different kind of mess. Nothing can "save" Fallout 4. All you can do is true to fix individual issues to be less grating and pointless.

 

[Kohno]

Can mods and DLC save it?

No.

They haven't saved anything before and they won't save anything now either. They can change some things for better and/or worse, but the real damage is done to the very core where they can not touch (at least not enough).

 

[Spacemunkey]

Skyrim is an awesome choose your own adventure fantasy game that allows you to decide who your character is, and while it doesn't go out of it's way to acknowledge who you are, it sure as hell doesn't blatantly tell you that you aren't that character. FO4 has zero character building freedom, from the get go it destroys that with set backgrounds, sexuality,voice, and a character history. I don't find these blank characters to be necessary in an RPG, but they are 100% essential to enjoying shallow BGS games. I don't think mods can or should fix FO4, but if someone creates a Dust style mod for it I'd give it a shot.

 

[0wing]

Mods should be something you sprinkle on top of something that is already great it should not be something you have to use to patch up everything that is wrong.

Agreed. It's shocking to see that we came to the point where it's normal to fix the game with mods to be able to play it without frustration.

The settlements are beyond repair. No matter how do you tweak it, they forever will be something outworldy and unfitting into the game. Not least reason is extraordinary player character's ability to build everything by just mixing materials, you know, disbelief intensifies.

The other thing that really bothers I believe most of the folks is 'you cannot go this way' invisible walls. While in F3/NV you can somewhere tcl over the border and go outside the limits, there's nothing interesting. Here's how it is possible to justify inability to go outside the border: why not spawn some really tough monsters that will catch you outside the map or go back in time and borrow radiation-poisoned lands from Wasteland and place it south of the Glowing Sea? The land is still generating so no problems. You see the outside, it's boring and dangerous anyway, go back, player.

 

[AgentBJ09]

If mods can save Fallout 4 I still won't be using 'em. Mods should be something you sprinkle on top of something that is already great it should not be something you have to use to patch up everything that is wrong.

Pretty much that. Bethesda's gotten away with that caliber of fanbase for years, and while their goodwill will run dry at some point, it'll be eclipsed by more drones too dumb to realize what kind of system they're supporting.

 

[Risewild]

No amount of mods will make Fallout 4 a RPG game...

Now if by saving it you mean make Fallout 4 the game it deserves to be, then maybe.

All a modder needs to do is:

• Make a mod that disables all Dialogue
• Make a mod that disables all Quests
• Make a mod that disables Level Up
• Make a mod that gives all Perks to the player at the start
• Make a mod that makes everyone killable
• Make a mod that makes the player respawn when killed
• Make a mod that makes Power Armor not get damaged
• Make a mod that makes enemies when killed drop loot around them
• Make a mod that adds potions that permanently increase the Character's HP when consumed

And that would probably be enough for Fallout 4 stop pretending to be what it is not...

 

[Einhanderc7]

I think I said this on another thread but mods cannot fix this shovelware. Don't get me wrong it could be done, but at the cost of the game itself.

What I mean is this:
To Fix FO4 to what I believe is mine and NMA standards a rather large team of modders would have to literally strip FO4 of everything and make a new game from the ground up. Not a total conversion using old assets, I'm talking scorched earth and rebuilding.

They would have to make a new game, with only the engine available to them. Which I think is a bad idea considering there are far better game engines out there that would make a Fallout game much better that Bethesda's horribly programmed engine.

You can polish shit all you want, but that ain't going to make it worth anything, or mask its odor.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

I don't get it, This game is a mess objectively. But unlike in dayz where people shit on that game constantly and expose the idiotic fan base who circle jerk one another on their subreddit and offical website. This fucking company gets almost no major push back from the community to the point where people say on mass collectively the story telling is shit and that they're tired of walking around in a hiking sim while shooting and looting.


Honestly, if you are that kind of person where in your opinion shooting and looting is the best thing to do in an RPG, You need to find a different hobby or different game because fallout never intended to equate towards shooting, looting and 50's music. Until bethesda shit it up.

 

[Atlas]

Can mods save Fallout 4? Honestly, I don't think so. But that doesn't mean a dedicated team of modders couldn't create something amazing with what they have. Lets take a look at Fallout NV; as i type this, there are numerous mods being developed that push beyond what most of us expect of mod authors. The Frontier, Molten Clouds, and Project Brazil are all great examples of this--Project Brazil gets a special mention in that its not something you have to start the main game to play. In fact, the only way TO play it is to select it in the New Game menu.

I bring that up because that;s something unprecedented. No other mod has made its own story thats so completely standalone that you don't need to touch the main game in any sense to play it. If modders took a similar approach to Fallout 4 and created a completely new storyline and worldspace, than that alone would fix one of the biggest issues Fallout 4 has. Namely that Boston and the plot surrounding it has much to be desired.

Sadly, even if we do get a mod like that there's still not much we can do for the core game itself. We may get an imitation perk/skill system, but it won't be nearly as enjoyable as it was in previous Fallouts.

While I don't think Fallout 4 is a complete lost cause, the only way it can be saved is if a group like the one behind Project Brazil--a group who has both the skillset and love of the franchise--takes on the massive undertaking of creating something new with the resources provided.

 

[0wing]

Molten Clouds

Wet blanket mode on: It's a name of the team, not the project they are working on. The name's 'The way of Chosen'. /w

 

[Risewild]

Bob the builder said it perfectly:

 

[ZigzagPX4]

It can! But it won't. If they bothered, they could've salvaged it, but they decided to lock mods behind Bethesda.net and now they've taken the industry-perfected model of content-filled expansions and replaced it with the very piecemeal system they introduced then ditched, as if to unlearn every lesson they learned.

I don't get it, This game is a mess objectively. But unlike in dayz where people shit on that game constantly and expose the idiotic fan base who circle jerk one another on their subreddit and offical website. This fucking company gets almost no major push back from the community to the point where people say on mass collectively the story telling is shit and that they're tired of walking around in a hiking sim while shooting and looting.

Oh, what a surprise, a community mainly based on the Internet constantly in use of double standards. Do I really have to regurgitate that old life moral about "life isn't fair"? Also, are we really just going to condescend to every single Bethesda fan and go "oh, they enjoy a game with crappy writing and uninspired gameplay, obviously all hundred thousands of them must be idiots"?

Yes, Fallout 4 wasn't a good Fallout game. In fact, it was a pretty shit Fallout game. ("You don't say, Zigzag?") It's an action game with gimmicks, but now everyone who enjoys it is automatically and unforgivably ignorant and stupid. That's a pretty elitist attitude, and it doesn't matter if Fallout 2 was objectively better, no one feels sorry for the elitists. It isn't very polite to pretend you're the "intellectuals" being ignored in favour of "unwashed masses".

Honestly, if you are that kind of person where in your opinion shooting and looting is the best thing to do in an RPG, You need to find a different hobby or different game because fallout never intended to equate towards shooting, looting and 50's music. Until bethesda shit it up.

That's the indirect solution then. Wait for a competitor to the "shooting, looting, and 50's music" niche to take the throne, then when Bethesda stops caring about Fallout and gives it over to Obsidian, you get what you want. There's no better answer to problems than patience.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

It can! But it won't. If they bothered, they could've salvaged it, but they decided to lock mods behind Bethesda.net and now they've taken the industry-perfected model of content-filled expansions and replaced it with the very piecemeal system they introduced then ditched, as if to unlearn every lesson they learned.



Oh, what a surprise, a community mainly based on the Internet constantly in use of double standards. Do I really have to regurgitate that old life moral about "life isn't fair"? Also, are we really just going to condescend to every single Bethesda fan and go "oh, they enjoy a game with crappy writing and uninspired gameplay, obviously all hundred thousands of them must be idiots"?

Yes, Fallout 4 wasn't a good Fallout game. In fact, it was a pretty shit Fallout game. ("You don't say, Zigzag?") It's an action game with gimmicks, but now everyone who enjoys it is automatically and unforgivably ignorant and stupid. That's a pretty elitist attitude, and it doesn't matter if Fallout 2 was objectively better, no one feels sorry for the elitists. It isn't very polite to pretend you're the "intellectuals" being ignored in favour of "unwashed masses".



That's the indirect solution then. Wait for a competitor to the "shooting, looting, and 50's music" niche to take the throne, then when Bethesda stops caring about Fallout and gives it over to Obsidian, you get what you want. There's no better answer to problems than patience.

I think its pretty certain that a majority of bethesda's core audience are the ones who asked for the 50's shooting, looting, waifu dating sim 2016. None ever said the words "All" Playing semantics game gets you nowhere in anywhere in arguments, I think CD projekt Red made a better argument that you don't have to sacrifice RPG mechanics infavor for open world gameplay, That they aren't mutually exclusive. Bethesda thinks they're appealing to RPGers by sugar coating things, But what they don't realize, arbitrary choices mean less when you don't even take your own lore or factions seriously.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

I think its pretty certain that a majority of bethesda's core audience are the ones who asked for the 50's shooting, looting, waifu dating sim 2016. None ever said the words "All" Playing semantics game gets you nowhere in anywhere in arguments,

Sorry, I was also referring to the people who actually have said the words "all". I just hate it when fans of complex games condescend on those who enjoy games with less depth. Just because those fans are a minority and are constantly ignored does not give them the right to look down on the majority that aren't. Obviously, I'm not referring to you, apologies for not making that clear.

I think CD projekt Red made a better argument that you don't have to sacrifice RPG mechanics infavor for open world gameplay, That they aren't mutually exclusive. Bethesda thinks they're appealing to RPGers by sugar coating things, But what they don't realize, arbitrary choices mean less when you don't even take your own lore or factions seriously.

I think The Witcher 3 is a very different game at the core to what Fallout could be, and that making something like another Fallout game for this generation would still involve sacrificing a large part of New Vegas' RPG mechanics and writing, or sacrificing a large part of Fallout 4's mainstream accessibility. Obviously the publishers would not like the latter as it results in less sales, so for now I believe they remain mutually exclusive. Obsidian could prove me wrong, if they ever get their hands on Fallout again, which they likely won't.

 

[0wing]

waifu dating sim 2016

It's executed worse than the one in Skyrim, tbh. What bethesda fan will buy for it? Again, F4 != Bethesda Game Studios product. At all.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

F4 != Bethesda Game Studios product.

This reminds me of how all Ubisoft series are basically the exact same game under the guise of a different setting and genre.

Which Ubisoft games are set in interesting locations but have boring main characters and a predictable plot? Which Ubisoft games are open-world, requiring you to "capture" a control point to unlock sections of the map so that you can try out the assortment of activities that the section has? Which Ubisoft games are full of repetitive missions and have easily marketable protagonists?

Now let's try the same thing with Bethesda. See if you can manage to convince yourself that only one of Bethesda's games has all of the following.

Which Bethesda game encourages open-world exploration and looting everything? Which Bethesda games have a linear, hand-holding tutorial sequence in which exposition is lazily fed? Which Bethesda games have crafting and skill progression systems that don't make much difference? Which Bethesda games have a predictable and cliché plot, with multiple stereotypical factions to side with that doesn't end up affecting much at all? Which Bethesda games contain meaningless, repetitive quests and the illusion of choice?

This kind of stuff is usually a sign of stifled creativity, aka "running out of ideas". It's not a good sign if this is happening at the fourth or fifth installments.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

No.

 

[0wing]

It's not a good sign if this is happening at the fourth or fifth installments.

Fourth installments tends to be a major turning point in a franchise. Not always but still.

Which Bethesda game encourages open-world exploration and looting everything? Which Bethesda games have a linear, hand-holding tutorial sequence in which exposition is lazily fed? Which Bethesda games have crafting and skill progression systems that don't make much difference? Which Bethesda games have a predictable and cliché plot, with multiple stereotypical factions to side with that doesn't end up affecting much at all? Which Bethesda games contain meaningless, repetitive quests and the illusion of choice?

Surface analysis of Bethesda clichés. Nope, Fallout 4 tends to move to more Ubisoft approach. With settlements instead of control points, tbh. Cross out skill system because it's heavely redesigned to not even recognizable under perk disguise, btw.