Civ 3 Fallout Mod

[Tannhauser]

Thorgrimm has updated this thread about his Civilization 3 Fallout modification. There are two new screenshots of the game, one of the player setup screen and another of various units from the Brotherhood faction of the modification. He also requests feedback on these screenshots, so let's oblige the man.<blockquote><center> </center></blockquote>

You can visit the forum for this project here.

 

[Bradylama]

Children of Set? Looks like he's fishing for factions, here.

Why not Vault City? San Francisco didn't become a part of NCR at the end of the game, I don't think. He could also make Raiders and Slavers two different factions.

 

[Tannhauser]

Talk to him about it, like I said in the news posts, he requests feedback. Talk to him directly, in the thread, on his forum, by private message, he seems rather open to suggestions and the like.

Vault City is one of the factions though, just to the right of the Children of Set in-fact.

 

[Jabbapop]

what was the empire of the circuit?

/me is dumb.

 

[Bradylama]

There was no Empire of the Circuit.

Maybe Vault 0? I dunno. I thought it was just Calculatroninator.

 

[Ashmo]

There was no Empire of the Circuit.

Maybe Vault 0? I dunno. I thought it was just Calculatroninator.

Empire of the Circuit is the made-up robot faction based on Vault 0 IIRC.

It makes more sense than throwing Raiders and Slavers in the same kettle. Heck, why not just dub them "Pirates"?

 

[Silencer]

Funny funny stuff. Empire of the Circuit

He misspelled "Maxson". lol.

Havinh Raiders and Slavers as a faction sucks. He could have had them replaced with the Shi...

 

[Odin]

The hummer is too big, then again...a hummer ??!!

 

[Ratty Sr.]

I love the idea of a Fallout mod for Civ 3, but I have a feeling that the author took five minutes at most to work out the factions. I mean, come on - "Raiders & Slavers"? Even if we ignore the fact that it's extremely unlikely such groups would ever form a strong and cohesive faction, let alone have will and cooperative ability to found cities and maintain a stable economy, he could have at least named them appropriately - "Wasteland Wolves" or "Black Horde" are way better names than the unimaginative "Raiders and Slavers."

Some problems with factions featured in this mod go even deeper - factions like Brotherhood of Steel were never known to found new cities or expand their territory. In Fallout 2 they don't even operate openly. They are a hi-tech paramilitary organization, not a country. Can you imagine today's CIA founding its own cities, building irrigation systems and growing crops? Nope, didn't think so.

Factions appropriate for a Civ 3 mod are those that have economic and organizational properties of states - they need to have territory, economy, government, armed forces etc. In both Fallout sequels, such factions are few, but it can be expected that in years following the fall of the Enclave, more and more wasteland communities would grow and adopt such a system. In 24th century, the territory of former USA would probably look a lot like medieval Europe - there would be an abundance of small feudal countries vieing for domination over what little resources and arable land is available in the wasteland. They would probably be named after their capital cities, like New Reno, Vault City, Redding, Modoc etc. There would likely be dozens, if not hundreds of them. This actually makes Civilization 3 an inappropriate game for a Fallout mod, since it allows only a limited number of factions.

 

[victor]

Ratty, the BOS "founding" cities would probably mean that they're controlling the city indirectly. Have some imagination. But as mentioned before, if you have any remarks, maybe you should tell them to the modmaker, Thorgrimm?

 

[Bradylama]

Ratty, this is a game mod. No need to get your panties in a wad over something somebody spent their own time to produce for free.

You're right, Civ 3 isn't the best game for a Fallout mod, but it at least looks cool, and I'll definitely check it out when he's done with it.

 

[Jebus]

This actually makes Civilization 3 an inappropriate game for a Fallout mod, since it allows only a limited number of factions.

Europa Universalis II! Europa Universalis II! *comes*

 

[SuAside]

before you go bashing people immediatly about certain features, you might want to educate your ass...

One explanation is required though. The raider & Slaver civ is not meant to be played, but be a living hell for the player. As they do not get settlers. They do however make raider units real damn fast. They also start out with 10 cities. The reason is to reflect how much a danger the raiders were to the nascent civs trying to rebuild. Also for the Barbarians the basic barb is a radscorpion, and the advanced barb is the mighty Deathclaw.


Cheers Thorgrimm

the raiders and slavers aren't meant to be one civ either, but it's just easier to use the game mechanics that way to make them raid you.

 

[Claw]

Damn, NMA really gives a fair impression of relentless hostility.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Europa Universalis II! Europa Universalis II! *comes*[/quotes]
Good thinking, Jebus. Though I don't think it's possible to mod EU in such manner. A pity.

the raiders and slavers aren't meant to be one civ either, but it's just easier to use the game mechanics that way to make them raid you.

It seems to me that once you destroy those ten cities, there would be no more raiders left anywhere in the wasteland. It would be better if they were barbarians and spawning randomly on the map. Having radscorpions and deathclaws in place of barbarians is kind of silly - a single radscorpion or a deathclaw can't pose a serious threat to a community, and while a pack of them is indeed a danger to travellers, I don't think scorpions or lizards ever staged an organized assault upon a human city. Also, what happens if they manage to conquer the city? Do they establish their own government and breed an army of little deathclaws bent on taking over the wasteland?

Damn, NMA really gives a fair impression of relentless hostility.

Ah, after a couple of thousand flames, several hundred insults, a number of warnings and at least one temp-ban, you get used to it...

 

[Thorgrimm]

Gents i welcome your comments,even hostile ones like Ratty's. As all comments give food for thought. I will try and answer your questions as to why certain things went as they did.

Bradylama wrote:

Children of Set? Looks like he's fishing for factions, here.

Actually Brady, a lot of thought was put into the factions. As at one time the Shi were going to be included, but was ruled out as a non-playable civ.

JabbaPop wrote:

what was the empire of the circuit?

Jabbapop, that is just the name we chose to represent the big bad guys of the mod. I would have rather used the bots out of the RPG's but since they only have 6 directions and civ needs 8 i can't.

Silencer wrote:

Havinh Raiders and Slavers as a faction sucks.

Silencer see SuAside's comment as to why the Raiders/Slavers are there.

Silencer wrote: He misspelled 'Maxson'.

And thank you for letting me know that mistake.

Odin wrote:

The hummer is too big, then again...a hummer ??!!

Odin as to the size issue, the team and myself have always thought that civ's mechanized units were far too small. So we decided to make them bigger than normal mech units in civ. As for the Hummer itself, i would have rather used the Highwayman from FO2 but again the gfx from the RPG's do not support that. Another point for the vehicles is that you can not build them, they are only produced by small wonders every 25 turns. So vehicles are going to be very rare.

Ratty wrote:

In Fallout 2 they don't even operate openly. They are a hi-tech paramilitary organization, not a country.

Ratty, that is why they do not have the civ trait of expansionist. Which means most of the time the comp will not enlage their domains. If you decide to play the brotherhood, by all means do not expand. Then you will see what it is like to fall behind the others in tech as they did in FO 2. If not for the chosen one the Brotherhood WOULD have fallen for their isolationist ways. But if that is how you wish to play be my guest. Although your game will be short as the hordes of the waste break down your walls and destroy the Brotherhood forever.

Su thanks for the defense dude. 8)

Claw wrote:

Damn, NMA really gives a fair impression of relentless hostility.

Claw i am used to it by now. No biggie, besides everybody is entitled to their opinion. Also even the hostile ones have possible nuggets of valuable information.

Gents thanks for all the comments,(even you Ratty ) and by all means keep them coming.


Cheers thorgrimm

 

[Thorgrimm]

Ratty wrote:

Also, what happens if they manage to conquer the city? Do they establish their own government and breed an army of little deathclaws bent on taking over the wasteland?

Ratty, i can tell you have never played civ 3 before. As if barbs breach your defenses they only cause destruction of buildings, and deaths of citizens, or the loss of gold.

Ratty wrote:

It seems to me that once you destroy those ten cities, there would be no more raiders left anywhere in the wasteland. It would be better if they were barbarians and spawning randomly on the map. Having radscorpions and deathclaws in place of barbarians is kind of silly - a single radscorpion or a deathclaw can't pose a serious threat to a community

Ratty the point you are failing to understand is that those 10 cities will be beyond your capabilites to conquer for a very long time. Heck you might not survive to try and conquer them. As they will be spawning at least 10 units a turn while you are lucky to make one every 8 to 10 turns to begin with. Then throw in the barbs, who spawns one unit a turn per barb site and on this map there are a LOT of them at least 30.
IIRC Shady Sands was having a very terrible problem with Radscorpions in FO1. This mod is going to be very difficult to win, as the wastes will be producing enemies by the truckload, and you MUST concentrate on trying to rebuild whatever faction you are leading. If you try conquest in the beginning you are going to lose horribly as the horrors of the wastes swarm over the bodies of your dead citizens.

Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Gents i welcome your comments,even hostile ones like Ratty's.

You call that hostile? You should see me on a bad day.

Ratty, i can tell you have never played civ 3 before. Wink As if barbs breach your defenses they only cause destruction of buildings, and deaths of citizens, or the loss of gold.

You're right, I barely sampled Civ 3 and wasn't particularly thrilled (a well-executed Fallout mod might change my mind, though...). I played Civ 1 and Civ 2 (as well as Test of Time) to the death, though, so now I'm viewing the whole topic based on that experience. Excuse my ignorance.

<snip rest>

If I understood correctly, you intend to change the whole pace and balance of the game and focus it primarily on survival, while expansion, technology and economic development are secondary goals. For a mod set in the world of Fallout, that's a very good and valid approach. However, I still don't like the faction selection. Even if you make BOS a non-expansionist faction, there are still others. Children of Set, for eaxmple, sounds inappropriately religious. There was only one known "child" of Set, and he described his father as "total bastard". I doubt other ghouls had a much better opinion of their leader. They certainly didn't seem to adore him enough to establish a cult, provided any of his more loyal followers even survived the slaughter of Necropolis. Also, Bradylama is right - we want Vault City! Maybe you should consider ditching some of the more far-fetched factions and replacing them with something more plausible.

 

[Silencer]

Heh, seems I'm too used to bitching to produce a good comment initially. But now, since a discussion has started, I'll throw in some more thoughts:

Children of Set? Looks like he's fishing for factions, here.

Actually, I think that this may be a good idea. The ghouls - we're talking ghouls, right? - have proven to be capable of constructing, rebuilding and maintaining organised settlements. They would certainly be numerous and a faction to reckon with.

One thing, Thorgrimm, have you devised a way to account for their sterility? (e.g. a drastically decreased, albeit greater than nil population growth rate?)

As at one time the Shi were going to be included, but was ruled out as a non-playable civ.

Why so?

Regarding Slavers&Raiders:

Since you put it that way, I must admit that it's a judicious application of those characters. I agree that they belong in the game as a "barbarian" faction, rather than a full-ranking Civilization. Therefore, if you can indeed disallow capturing/founding cities for them, they're a valuable addition.

Indeed, in Civ3 barbarian units just loot and pillage cities. But I remember they could capture cities in Civ1 and Civ2 - sometimes razing them, but on more than one occasion, retaining them. This should not happen here, even if you let them have a few base camps at the start. And I fear that it might if you let them play as a civ. On the other hand, my knowledge of Civ3 modding is scarce at best.

I also recall that you couldn't have built anything bar the infantry unit in Civ1 if you let the barbarians capture a city and then switched civs.

(OT: I once let the Barbarians capture London just for the fun of having a red city to pick at throughout my first game of Civ1 )

Still, you could change their name to "Wateland Scum"

And thank you for letting me know that mistake.

Yeah, don't mention it. But I warn you - if I start spending entire nights playing Civ3 again, it'll be your fault, and yours only!

 

[Thorgrimm]

Ratty wrote:

Also, Bradylama is right - we want Vault City! Maybe you should consider ditching some of the more far-fetched factions and replacing them with something more plausible.

Ratty, if you look at the player setup you will see Vault City listed as one of the civs.
Ratty by all means feel free to submit your thoughts on factions. As i am always open to suggestions. List them and give me some reasons why you think they would be good choices.

Silencer wrote:

One thing, Thorgrimm, have you devised a way to account for their sterility? (e.g. a drastically decreased, albeit greater than nil population growth rate?)

Silencer, yes as the Ghoul units need a special strategic resource called Green Goo to be able to make more. Also they are located in very inhospitible terrain, which puts a natural limt on their city size. They also are the only civ that can ignore the killing ability of the wastelands terrain. Their units also ignore the movement penalites of the wastelands treeain also. To show their resistance to radiation.

Silencer wrote:

sometimes razing them, but on more than one occasion, retaining them. This should not happen here, even if you let them have a few base camps at the start. And I fear that it might if you let them play as a civ.

Silencer as just barbs they can't capture cities. As a civ they can. That is why we have hesitated to incorporate the critters as a civ. We have been trying to find a way to get more critters in but the games mechanics only allow for 2 land and one naval barb.

Gentlemen i greatly appreciate your responses,a nd look forward to any more you may have.
Ratty i genuinely look forward to your list of factions and the reasons for them. As that is the reason for the threads as i do truly want suggestions.

Cheers Thorgrimm