Classic Fallout Gameplay Flaws (Also New Vegas)

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by TerminallyChill, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. cronicler

    cronicler Lurksalot

    495
    May 31, 2006
    To be perfectly honest, Fallout was pretty much barebones and rough in many areas.
    If I could go back in time and suggest / implement design changes to the team, I would be advocating for "streamlining" the stat & skill side of the game while simultaneously arguing for the opposite via increasing the system's complexity and integration into the gameworld;

    During the character creation / start the game, the player is given access to only the following meta skills (and nothing in the UI suggests that there is anything more), all derived from the Stats and with the option to tag "1" of them.

    Primitive Weapons
    Fighting
    Marksmanship
    Speech
    First Aid
    Education
    Survival

    After the player performs a certain number of actions, say 10 pistol shots and/or speaking to certain NPCs on key topics and/or paying Specialist NPCs for tutoring and/or finding & studying pre and post war manuals & guides & so on, various specialized (sub)skills start to get unlocked. When fully fleshed out, the skill list would have looked something like this;


    Primitive Weapons
    -Slings & Stones
    -Bows
    -Traps

    Fighting
    -Melee
    -Unarmed

    Marksmanship
    -Pistols (-> Pistolero*)
    -Rifles (-> Sharpshooting*)
    -Heavy Weapons (-> Support Gunnery*)

    Speech
    -Barter (->Trading* -> Commerce*)
    -Leadership* (-> Command*)
    -Gambling

    First Aid
    -Doctor*
    -Medicine*
    -Husbandry*

    Education
    -Science**
    -Repair**
    -Energy Weapons**

    Survival
    -Outdoorsman
    -Sneak
    -Steal
    -Lockpick**

    The skills with "*" should have associated quests in the gameworld, allowing the player to pursue various trails to earn / unlock relevant skills, like assisting the doctor as Shady Sands prepare Antidote to unlock Medicine and so on.
    The ones denoted by "**" are skills that require certain items like a lockpick set or Science or Repair Manuals to unlock.
    Lastly, the skills denoted by "->" are skill upgrades that require more complicated quests that unlock additional professional abilities, like establishing your own caravan then your own tradinghouse in the world, mastering specific weapons, learning how to direct NPCs in combat and so on.

    As for skill improvement, I would actually reduce the skill point gain by a large factor and only allow spending skill points to improve meta-skills. You spend a skillpoint on Survival, all the sub-skills increase slightly AND you open a training slot for it; which allows the player to spend resources to further improve the sub skill.
    Of course, you can always add experts to your rooster as well as better equipment and remedial training to push yourself even further, as long as you have "enough" to fund it.

    Such an approach would have allowed a much better and involved integration of the skill growth into the gameplay as a direct part of it, making player progression that much satisfying, imo. In addition, it would have allowed a decent expansion to the currently stub aspects of the game; Bows & Crossbows as alternative primitive weapons, Using slings in conjunction with grenades, Reworking certain niche skills like [Doctor] and close combat skills as enhancements to other skills and making them feel useful options rather than dead weight.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  2. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    If we compare with Tactics, we might as well add the whole Tactics system, plus the stances, the multi-layers maps, the party control etc...
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  3. The_Citzen

    The_Citzen It Wandered In From the Wastes

    120
    May 22, 2020
    Talking about multi-layers, I think the number 1 thing that I would want in a Fo1 and 2 remake would be a more vertical level design, with maps with multiple levels, and by having them affect directly the gameplay.

    It is kinda funny that for me an good example of vertical level design being actually Fallout 4, by fps standards it manages to create some very good encounters that uses different levels of height to give you an advantadge or disadvantadge. It is one of the very few games where you will constantly encounter instances where you are fighting enemies both above and bellow you at the same time. It is kinda sad that this concept still isn't widely used over the fps market.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  4. Baron of Arizona

    Baron of Arizona First time out of the vault

    24
    Jul 6, 2022
    The only gameplay flaw in the original Fallouts that I noticed was the rare use of skills for quest solving. Most of the time you use only combat skills and speech, not only there to few quests and places where you can use skills like science or repair, but there are quests where it would make sense to use those skills, but you can't. Like in Broken Hills you have been tasked to repair some tech in the mine and your only solution is to get new parts from New Reno, you can't use repair skill there for no reason. It really killed all my interest to create new builds (outside of combat ones that is). Although this is much less of a problem in Fallout 1 because the game itself is much shorter, plus repair and science can give you access to some strong gear early in the game which can barely justify investment in them.
     
  5. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    This day and age before some people play a game they will look at spoilers, know the perks to take and min max according to online info.
    I first played Fallout 2 using Narg a stock character which is akin to playing as a Nosferatu in bloodlines.

    The good ol' days without internet access lol.
     
  6. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    The differences between difficulties are dumb. I enjoy playing all of fallout 1, 2 and new vegas on hard/very hard mode, but it could be so much more interesting if instead of adjusting health and damage, each difficulty had its own placement for items, enemies, speech check difficulties, lockpicking/science/repair etc. difficulties and things like that. Maybe it's not feasible given the amount of time each game had for development, and I guess the other fallout games also have this problem, but it's just something I wanted to complain about.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  7. Dotan

    Dotan First time out of the vault

    41
    Jul 17, 2022
    The fact they let you switch difficulties at any time are another reason for this decision
     
  8. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    True but I would get rid of that if it meant that I could have what I was talking about. It's not like I switch difficulties mid game anyway.
     
  9. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Guest

    I almost did with Atom but it said no bitch git gud and I did. I prefer a real difficulty change (NG+) instead of a damage multiplier.
     
  10. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    What is Atom? I can't find it by googling atom game
     
  11. Richwizard

    Richwizard Carbon Dated and Proud
    Orderite

    Jan 18, 2010
  12. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    Googling ? Wtf does that mean ? I used speech to text and said " let there be ATOM " and lo and behold it appeared as a free download.
    The only downside was I was transported to a far off Galaxy and I felt a bit scrambled. But I reckon that does not matter.

    I play games on piss easy mode. Before I start the game I scour gaming sites for cheat codes, walkthroughs, goodie bags which don't really cost that much , as I earn a good living making twitch streams. The mugs think I am a gaming god and always send me munny through paypal
     
  13. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    why did u reply to me with this post
     
  14. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    I typed 'ATOM RPG' into Google.

    ____________
    Result:
     
  15. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    upon closer inspection i seem to have googled "adam game" - Incredible.
     
  16. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    It's a wonder it never returned BIOSHOCK.
    PER at 10 + 2x mentats.
     
  17. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    I'm guessing the IRL SPECIAL stats thread has probably been done to death already
     
  18. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    I sometimes get confused between IRL URL and IRA.

    I've never spotted that thread, it must be an old one started by that Moth guy or someone.
     
  19. Traplord209

    Traplord209 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    122
    Aug 27, 2022
    I guess I'll have to make it tomorrow!