Combat Shotguns

D

DrKissinger1

First time out of the vault
I'm squirming my way through FO2, playing a fairly standard generalist character. I've got about 140 in Small Guns, and I'm wielding a combat shotgun, which I have a question about. It seems to me that whenever I use Burst with the combat shotgun, it doesn't do any more damage than a regular single shot. I tested it out at point-blank range, first with a slaver, then with a giant ant, and burst/single did roughly the same amount of damage each time, usually between 13-20 HP. At this rate, I can do more damage per turn using the 4-AP magnum that I traded in for the shotgun.

Funny thing is, I've outfitted Sulik with a 10mm SMG, and he seems to have no problem perforating gangsters. His single shot will do about 10 points, but his burst will usually do around 40-50.

Is there something in the mechanics I'm not taking into account?
 
I don't know what else apart from Small Guns Stats will determine damage, but i have about the same, i can kick ass with an assault rifle on burst, but yeah, single shot is about 10-20 damage.

I'll test out a combat shotgun when i finish work and let you know.
 
Combat Shotguns only fire 3 shots in a burst. Assault Rifles fire 8. That's a lot of the problem. Oh, and the Small Guns stat doesn't effect anything other than accuracy.
That can make it seem like it's increasing damage, at least until you get high enough for 95% accuracy on everything.

In any case, Assault Rifles are much better: not only do they fire more bullets, but the damage modifiers on their ammo are stellar.
JHP ammo can perforate pretty much anything not in heavy armor, and AP ammo can even kill Enclave patrols. (as long as they don't kill you first)

The moral of the story is: don't use Combat Shotguns. I had the same problem the first time I played through Fallout (the first one). They're great in Fallout Tactics, though.
 
Well that makes sense. However the very first time i played F2, i walked around most of the game with a combat shotgun, and used to manage to cause a lot of damage from burst fire. :?

Either way i agree. Get an assault rifle, and get Skeeter in the junkyard to mod it for you. He increases the capacity of the ammo to 100. VERY useful :)
 
Ah wow, I never realized how important the ammo statistics were. One fairly important question left, though. The damage mod is a fairly simple ratio, but the DR and DT mods are positive or negative numbers. Does a negative number mean that it reduces the enemy's DR or DT? In other words, is negative good or bad?
 
Long post here, but hopefully useful :wink:

OK, it works like this.

Say you've got 5mm JHP, and 5mm AP.

5mm JHP:
Damage mod: 2/1
Damage resistance mod: 35%

The base damage of an Assault Rifle is 8-16 per shot. If you load in JHP ammo, that's doubled to 16-32. However, your enemy's resistance is increased by 35% against the shots.

5mm AP:
Damage mod 1/2
Damage resistance mod: -35%

Once again, the base damage of the AR is 8-16 per shot. If you load in AP ammo, that's halved to 4-8. However, your enemy's resistance is decreased by 35% against the shots.
AND, in something not indicated anywhere, AP Ammo completely ignores Damage Threshold.

So, against an unarmored opponent...

The most damage a burst of JHP can do is 83-166.
The most damage a burst of AP can do is 32-64.

Seems pretty bad there, doesn't it?

Then against Metal Armor...
The most damage a burst of JHP can do is 34-78.
The most damage a burst of AP can do is 32-64.

Getting closer.

And against Combat Armor...

The most damage a burst of JHP can do is 22-54.
The most damage a burst of AP can do is 30-61.

AP's now in the lead.

Opponents in Metal Armor are the last ones where JHP has an advantage. Deathclaws also have resistances roughly equivalent to Combat Armor, so AP ammo is actually better against them as well.

Then you bring Power Armor into the mix:

The most damage a burst of JHP can do is 8-40.
The most damage a burst of AP can do is 30-61.

Against somebody in Advanced Power Armor, it's even worse:

The most damage a burst of JHP can do is 1-14.
The most damage a burst of AP can do is 26-51.

The AP Ammo is still truckin', while JHP becomes progressively more ineffective.
------------------------------------------------------------
AP Ammo is vastly underestimated by a lot of players, because they never really used it the way it was meant to be used. A lot of that is because the fact that it bypasses DT isn't mentioned anywhere, so most people look at it and think they're getting half-power ammo.

If you're devoted to the Assault Rifle or Minigun, then it's good to carry both JHP and AP and switch off based on who you're fighting. Carry mostly JHP, but keep a reserve of AP for if you run into stronger opponents.

As an aside, the 5mm-using Minigun/Avenger Minigun are the strongest guns in F01 and F02 respectively and nearly nobody knows it :lol:
 
Kan-Kerai said:
As an aside, the 5mm-using Minigun/Avenger Minigun are the strongest guns in F01 and F02 respectively and nearly nobody knows it :lol:
Click to expand...
Especially with 2x Bonus Ranged Damage since it gives +80 damage with the (Avenger) Minigun. However, Bozar still rules since there's no need to swap ammo.
 
Awesome post, Kan-Karai. Very helpful.

Here's a random question for you, though. What the hell kind of armor are the Redding Wanamingos rocking? Nothing seems to be getting through, AP or otherwise.
 
Well, if you have a hard time you can always return later when you've gained some levels and/or better equipment... But bursting from point blank range usually does it too if you get a critical.
 
Story of my life... I walked with a squad in Power Armors (exploited the BH uranium money bug on one playthrough) into Vault 15. I carved my way through the raiders until I reached level 3 where one ripped me apart with an AK-112 loaded with AP bullets.

Damn.
 
Well, I managed to wrap up FO2, so now I'm trying an evil FO1 run. One more question, though. Unlike the bullets in FO2, there are no stats listed for those in FO1. Is there any patch that includes the numbers? Or do I have to go look up a guide?
 
DrKissinger1 said:
Well, I managed to wrap up FO2, so now I'm trying an evil FO1 run. One more question, though. Unlike the bullets in FO2, there are no stats listed for those in FO1. Is there any patch that includes the numbers? Or do I have to go look up a guide?
Click to expand...

They're the same as in Fo2, if that helps.
 
That should cover it. Many thanks, everybody.

And thanks for the outstanding guides, Per. I didn't realize you were the author until I clicked on your signature. I used them originally to make sure I didn't create a throw-away character, but I found them very useful later on for avoiding bugs and working around silly scripting errors (for example, I wanted my evil character to keep VC independent, so I had to make sure to not collect the reward from Randall).
 
los-angeles-times

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