Damages and hitpoints

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Hi Rosh and others! Don't nail me for going for this subject again.

NOTE! To avoid that shit i got in my last post(and being a fallout pagan, according to Rosh), i now tell you that these are all raw ideas, i don't expect them to be perfect. What i do expect is that you join me in figuring out if this would fit fallout or not, and if it fits, tell me how it could be made better.

*** Damage and Hitpoints: ***
#1-1. Distributable Hardness
As your character gains more levels, there could be hardness to different body parts, that decreases amount of damage made and chance of criticals(ex. it would be ideal to put hardness to arms and head if you are a boxer).

#1-2. Minuses when going down in hitpoints (body state)
As fallout used "Very-healthy" and "Dead" states in hitpoints as most games do, i think that there should be certain minuses when going to poor or critical in hitpoints, for example:
- Normal: No minuses
- Average: Few bruises and wounds, -1 penalty to stamina(moving)
- Poor: Blood streams lightly from your body and it's difficult to breath and everything aches: -2 penalty to stamina, -1 penalty to accuracy, -1 penalty to action points
- Critical: Blood runs heavy from your body, vision is dim, you're vomiting and world spins around: -4 penalty to stamina, -3 penalty to accuracy, -3 penalty to action points

#1-3. Severed Limbs
If severation of one of your limbs should occur(due to chainsawing maniac etc), only characters with very high endurance should survive the bloodloss and not going blackout, so being able to drag/run him/herself to safety with certain timelimit before death, unless first aid or doctor skill is used to prevent bloodloss. (possible replacements?: wooden leg or hand, or something very rare cybernetic)

#1-4. Different Criticals to Power Armor
As Power Armor is so much different from other armors, there should be different criticals too, for example reactor explosion, or with flamethrower burning a guy inside it with Power Armor still standing up smoking from it's airholes.

#1-5. Stun/Wound/Mortal System??
There is also example of this in fallout 2 cd, i personally think that in P&P, basic hitpoints are best to be used, but in PC-games we can go a little further, but does this fit in fallout? It's an sort of Advanced HP, but... i don't know, what do you think?

#1-6. Nature of Stimpacks
Stimpacks should only heal hitpoints, not cure wounds or stop bleeding, they should be only used to temporarily rise number of hitpoints, not body state(look idea n.2), critical for example. If you go to critical condition, only way to remove it is by rest and usage of doctor skill, or visiting a doctor.

*** Misc: ***
#2-1. Weapons more powerful, less weapons in the gameworld
This means basically reducing radically amount of random encounters, or to be exact, random encounters with guns involved. I can live with Deathclaws biting my arse off, but six fully equipped gun-thugs trying to kill me four times in a square gets on my nerve.

#2-2. Gore!!
As F3 will use 3d, it's more than possible to use GORE effects, i want to see heads splitted and legs severed(there's nothing more hilarious than overpowered character kicking off peoples heads, like the priest in that b-class movie "braindead"). Praise the gore, mother of all good games!

#2-3. Mental Effects
If your character kills people just for fun, there could be some special perk for mental effects that turns your character to adrealine packed, raging beast that won't stop at nothing(like that guy in Judge Dredd Magazine that had switch in his head for different levels of insanity).
 
>*** Damage and Hitpoints: ***
>#1-1. Distributable Hardness
>As your character gains more levels,
>there could be hardness to
>different body parts, that decreases
>amount of damage made and
>chance of criticals(ex. it would
>be ideal to put hardness
>to arms and head if
>you are a boxer).

this should be handled by agility, not exp levels... btw. my skin is almost the same as yours, don't you think? If you try to cut it with the knife, it'll cut the same wounds. ps. kids, don't try this at home or work or anywhere else ;-)

>
>#1-2. Minuses when going down in
>hitpoints (body state)
>As fallout used "Very-healthy" and "Dead"
>states in hitpoints as most
>games do, i think that
>there should be certain minuses
>when going to poor or
>critical in hitpoints, for example:

This is what should be implemented in the first Fallout. I mean walking with 1HP is not the same as walking with 100HP

>
>- Normal: No minuses
>- Average: Few bruises and wounds,
>-1 penalty to stamina(moving)
>- Poor: Blood streams lightly from
>your body and it's difficult
>to breath and everything aches:
>-2 penalty to stamina, -1
>penalty to accuracy, -1 penalty
>to action points
>- Critical: Blood runs heavy from
>your body, vision is dim,
>you're vomiting and world spins
>around: -4 penalty to stamina,
>-3 penalty to accuracy, -3
>penalty to action points
>
>#1-3. Severed Limbs
>If severation of one of your
>limbs should occur(due to chainsawing
>maniac etc), only characters with
>very high endurance should survive
>the bloodloss and not going
>blackout, so being able to
>drag/run him/herself to safety with
>certain timelimit before death, unless
>first aid or doctor skill
>is used to prevent bloodloss.
>(possible replacements?: wooden leg or
>hand, or something very rare
>cybernetic)

yeah that would be COOL to get a wooden leg... they could call me Woody :-) I could even buy a parrot and a boat :) a most exellent idea!

>
>#1-4. Different Criticals to Power Armor
>
>As Power Armor is so much
>different from other armors, there
>should be different criticals too,
>for example reactor explosion, or
>with flamethrower burning a guy
>inside it with Power Armor
>still standing up smoking from
>it's airholes.

Armors need durability! If someone blows away your air purifier system, your damage resistance for bullets stays the same but you are not resistant to radiation and/or toxic clouds, poison etc

>#1-6. Nature of Stimpacks
>Stimpacks should only heal hitpoints, not
>cure wounds or stop bleeding,
>they should be only used
>to temporarily rise number of
>hitpoints, not body state(look idea
>n.2), critical for example. If
>you go to critical condition,
>only way to remove it
>is by rest and usage
>of doctor skill, or visiting
>a doctor.

don't know... take a look in predator, he has a thingy much similar to stim. it does extensive healing...

>
>*** Misc: ***
>#2-1. Weapons more powerful, less weapons
>in the gameworld
>This means basically reducing radically amount
>of random encounters, or to
>be exact, random encounters with
>guns involved. I can live
>with Deathclaws biting my arse
>off, but six fully equipped
>gun-thugs trying to kill me
>four times in a square
>gets on my nerve.
>

I was in for that since the beggining. Much less weapons, much more equpment from Mad Max!!!!!!!!

>#2-2. Gore!!
>As F3 will use 3d, it's
>more than possible to use
>GORE effects, i want to
>see heads splitted and legs
>severed(there's nothing more hilarious than
>overpowered character kicking off peoples
>heads, like the priest in
>that b-class movie "braindead"). Praise
>the gore, mother of all
>good games!

The first Fallout game Interplay does in 3D will have that. This is not being questioned.

>
>#2-3. Mental Effects
>If your character kills people just
>for fun, there could be
>some special perk for mental
>effects that turns your character
>to adrealine packed, raging beast
>that won't stop at nothing(like
>that guy in Judge Dredd
>Magazine that had switch in
>his head for different levels
>of insanity).

It should get him into berserk state, shooting into people, innocent or not...

High level chars could control this (sustain it) and thoe inexperinced not...

--
Miroslav, miroslav@gamestats.com
No Mutants Allowed - Fallout WebSite
http://fallout.gamestats.com/
 
>*** Damage and Hitpoints: ***
>#1-1. Distributable Hardness
>As your character gains more levels,
>there could be hardness to
>different body parts, that decreases
>amount of damage made and
>chance of criticals(ex. it would
>be ideal to put hardness
>to arms and head if
>you are a boxer).

To head for diplomats and groin for gigolos, right, I'm afraid this doesn't exactly decrease a bullet's efficiency.

>- Normal: No minuses
>- Average: Few bruises and wounds,
>-1 penalty to stamina(moving)
>- Poor: Blood streams lightly from
>your body and it's difficult
>to breath and everything aches:
>-2 penalty to stamina, -1
>penalty to accuracy, -1 penalty
>to action points
>- Critical: Blood runs heavy from
>your body, vision is dim,
>you're vomiting and world spins
>around: -4 penalty to stamina,
>-3 penalty to accuracy, -3
>penalty to action points

Any Idea how hard that is? Fighting the enclave with your heart and brains dragging behind you on some vains. I like the bruises part, and maybe the little blood, but the critical is pretty much equal to death...

>#1-3. Severed Limbs
>If severation of one of your
>limbs should occur(due to chainsawing
>maniac etc), only characters with
>very high endurance should survive
>the bloodloss and not going
>blackout, so being able to
>drag/run him/herself to safety with
>certain timelimit before death, unless
>first aid or doctor skill
>is used to prevent bloodloss.
>(possible replacements?: wooden leg or
>hand, or something very rare
>cybernetic)

The shock should be enough to finish you of, though, to protect you from anyone saying that cybernetic protheses would be to high tech : Frank Horrigan; The Master and his Lieutenant; and last but not least dr. Henry in NCR, Enclave egghead working on cybernetics project (not the vault behavioral project, he made that very clear) (excess: Skynet, K-9 and cyberhound mk2)

>#1-4. Different Criticals to Power Armor
>As Power Armor is so much
>different from other armors, there
>should be different criticals too,
>for example reactor explosion, or
>with flamethrower burning a guy
>inside it with Power Armor
>still standing up smoking from
>it's airholes.

COOL!!! It may be a bit hard to implement, or not, but either way I want it! How about your armor actually damaging, for instance: parts overheating (especially with nearby flamethrowers) or these hydraulic movement enhancers getting stuck (Can you walk in 400 pounds of metal without help?)

>#1-5. Stun/Wound/Mortal System??
>There is also example of this
>in fallout 2 cd, i
>personally think that in P&P,
>basic hitpoints are best to
>be used, but in PC-games
>we can go a little
>further, but does this fit
>in fallout? It's an sort
>of Advanced HP, but... i
>don't know, what do you
>think?

I don't understand, I'm stunned.

>#1-6. Nature of Stimpacks
>Stimpacks should only heal hitpoints, not
>cure wounds or stop bleeding,
>they should be only used
>to temporarily rise number of
>hitpoints, not body state(look idea
>n.2), critical for example. If
>you go to critical condition,
>only way to remove it
>is by rest and usage
>of doctor skill, or visiting
>a doctor.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I love my stimpacks, I won't let you kill them. (even though in the original Fallout and Fallout 2 stimpacks didn't cure crippled limbs either... thus, research)

>*** Misc: ***
>#2-1. Weapons more powerful, less weapons
>in the gameworld
>This means basically reducing radically amount
>of random encounters, or to
>be exact, random encounters with
>guns involved. I can live
>with Deathclaws biting my arse
>off, but six fully equipped
>gun-thugs trying to kill me
>four times in a square
>gets on my nerve.

Wanna bet everyone agrees?

>#2-2. Gore!!
>As F3 will use 3d, it's
>more than possible to use
>GORE effects, i want to
>see heads splitted and legs
>severed(there's nothing more hilarious than
>overpowered character kicking off peoples
>heads, like the priest in
>that b-class movie "braindead"). Praise
>the gore, mother of all
>good games!

Good one, personally, at least something along the lines of SoF, shooting of 16 different bodyparts.

>#2-3. Mental Effects
>If your character kills people just
>for fun, there could be
>some special perk for mental
>effects that turns your character
>to adrealine packed, raging beast
>that won't stop at nothing(like
>that guy in Judge Dredd
>Magazine that had switch in
>his head for different levels
>of insanity).

An insanity level... gotta stay below it or your char runs of and: Game over.

http://theorder.vault13.net/images/avatars/WilliAvatar2.jpg
 
Abolish levels and hit points!!

Abolish levels and hit points since they are unrealistic and suck. Computergames can have much more detailed damage systems than pen and paper RPGs because the computer can do all the calculations neccesary in a split second. I think Fallout should use the damage system from the swedish game company Neogames RPGs since this is very detailed, unfortunately it takes time to roll on all of the tables and such that is required but that won't be a problem with a computer.
 
>>of Advanced HP, but... i
>>don't know, what do you
>>think?
>
>I don't understand, I'm stunned.

If you have Acrobat reader(comes with fallout 2 cd) you can try this pen&paper out with your friend. all you need is a fallout cd for instructions, pen, paper and a friend.

It's in the "Alternity" directory
 
hardnes to other body parts could bee a perk who makes those body parts that are hit the most, stronger and more defensive.
also this could affect armor parts but they would becoumme less deffensive after how many bullet holes they would have.
 
Pirates gold

>>(possible replacements?: wooden leg or
>>hand, or something very rare
>>cybernetic)

>yeah that would be COOL to get a wooden leg... they could call >me Woody I could even buy a parrot and a boat a most exellent >idea!

I knew that somebody would write about sailors and pirates("this ain't corsairs you know").

But seriously, walking with wood or ironbar as a leg would be nice, sort of prove of your physical hardness...
 
>>*** Damage and Hitpoints: ***
>>#1-1. Distributable Hardness
>kids, don't try this at
>home or work or anywhere
>else ;-)

That's out then...


>>#1-4. Different Criticals to Power Armor

>>As Power Armor is so much
>>different from other armors, there
>>should be different criticals too,

>Armors need durability! If someone blows
>away your air purifier system,

That was my main point, so let's yell: "different criticals to power armor!"


>>#1-6. Nature of Stimpacks
>>Stimpacks should only heal hitpoints, not
>>cure wounds or stop bleeding,

>don't know... take a look in
>predator, he has a thingy
>much similar to stim. it
>does extensive healing...

So we need a new, much more advanced "stimpack", something very hi-tech and expensive, maybe liquid that contains nano-robots?
 
>>*** Damage and Hitpoints: ***

>>- Normal: No minuses
>>- Average: Few bruises and wounds,
>>-1 penalty to stamina(moving)
>>- Poor: Blood streams lightly from

>Any Idea how hard that is?
>Fighting the enclave with your
>heart and brains dragging behind
>you on some vains. I
>like the bruises part, and
>maybe the little blood, but
>the critical is pretty much
>equal to death...

Ok, it would be harder than in normal fallout, but it would make the game a little more realistic, if we decrease those effects a little, but still keep the visuals, it might work.

>>#1-3. Severed Limbs
>>first aid or doctor skill
>>is used to prevent bloodloss.
>>(possible replacements?: wooden leg or
>>hand, or something very rare
>>cybernetic)
>
>The shock should be enough to
>finish you of, though, to
>protect you from anyone saying

It wouldn't be an everyday happening, only very high luck roll and very high endurance, let's say eight, would save you from the shock(but not from the guy who took your limb).

>>#1-4. Different Criticals to Power Armor
>>As Power Armor is so much
>>different from other armors, there

>actually damaging, for instance: parts
>overheating (especially with nearby flamethrowers)

It seams that everybody agrees with this idea?


>>#1-6. Nature of Stimpacks
>>Stimpacks should only heal hitpoints, not
>>cure wounds or stop bleeding,

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I love my stimpacks, I

Hmm, sticky situation...

>>*** Misc: ***
>>#2-1. Weapons more powerful, less weapons
>>in the gameworld
>>This means basically reducing radically amount
>>of random encounters, or to
>>be exact, random encounters with
>>guns involved. I can live
>>with Deathclaws biting my arse
>>off, but six fully equipped
>>gun-thugs trying to kill me
>>four times in a square
>>gets on my nerve.
>
>Wanna bet everyone agrees?
>

Ok, maybe not DC's, let's say dogs.

>>#2-2. Gore!!
>>that b-class movie "braindead"). Praise
>>the gore, mother of all
>>good games!
>
>Good one, personally, at least something
>along the lines of SoF,
>shooting of 16 different bodyparts.
>

Praise to that!
 
yes... most great...i agree totally... bugging these guys often, ana? :D

btw. nyt oon kirjotellut sulle.. on niin kivaa-aaa
 
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